Ohio house passes restrictive hog hunting bill

QuietTexan said:

This is absolute BS, the kind of grey-fallacy garbage that perpetuates this problem.

Why did you bother to try to eradicate them on your land if they're such a misunderstood valuable resource?

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See? You have proven my point. We are taught that pigs=bad.

Like it or not, they are a valuable resource to landowners and a huge draw for hunters.

So, tell me how this is 100% bad if so many people love pig hunting and so many landowners benefit from their presence?

Buffalobwana said:

We are taught that pigs=bad.

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You keep going back to being "taught" - I wasn't "taught" anything. I see the damage with my own two eyes, I add up the costs on my 9 fingers and 8 toes, I pay the vet bills and I buy fencing materials and I clean up the damage. I count turkeys, I can tell their population swings with presence of pigs. Pigs eat their eggs, they trample their nests, I can see the damage they cause. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this non-native invasive species that damages a highly valuable native species is bad for me, my rangeland, and my goal of maintaining a functional and productive environment on my land. I'm not some hippie here, Angus aren't exactly native to the land, and I've planted non-native plant species many times. I don't let chasing perfect get in the way of improvement. I grub mesquite but I mow poverty weed. I mulch cedars but burn mesquite piles. I've tilled and planted cover crops instead of grass, that's something that will drive the native-plant brigade to drink themselves into a stuper. My god, you used a PLOW? Didn't you get taught that no-till is the only way to go! I'm not perfect (even inside my own logic) by any means, I still have economics to work inside of, but I won't turn a blind eye to something I can SEE causing damage just because someone else happens to like it.

Buffalobwana said:

So, tell me how this is 100% bad if so many people love pig hunting and so many landowners benefit from their presence?

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I don't care what other land owners do, if they want to call putting up with damage by an invasive non-native species a "benefit" because they can make a little money off it they're free to do that. I don't have to jump off the cliff just because all the other Lemmings are doing it. And I don't have to buy into a gray-fallacy by refusing saying that something isn't "bad" when I can quantify it's impact.

They can't force me to live inside their world view, and they can't force me to say "oh it's ok, it's not 100% bad because you like it". I don't have to speak lies to make them feel better. In return I don't expect them to care about what I say. But the line is drawn at the fence, and if their BS spills over into my world I'll say my piece just the same. I'll continue to chase these pigs right back into their world where they can reap all these supposed benefits that they love so much.

But judging by how many people are buying traps, complaining about damage, and trying to get rid of the pigs, seems like there's a lot more of me out there and the ones who think there's a benefit.

Oddly enough, including you. Didn't you spent a lot of time and money fencing to try to eradicate pigs?

Why aren't you being accepting of this cornucopia of pork by letting them be on your land?

sierrastalker said:

I guess my big question on this is - can anyone name a state where hunting pigs IS allowed that has ALSO eradicated them? I don't know of any state that's managed to do that. But I haven't gone out and looked for the info. Maybe Ohio's approach will work, maybe not. I'm thinking about how leaving it up to private land owners could be problematic.....it could leave big pockets of land where the hogs could go for refuge if the landowner doesn't want to kill them. And what about public land? If they're on public land who is the landowner/lessee/agent? Is anyone going to kill them there?

Anyway, if eradication is the goal they might as well try a different approach from other states. I just listened to a hunting podcast that was talking about how lots of hogs have been moved around into new areas by hunters who want more stuff to hunt....seems like this bill is trying to get at that? Also who knows if whatever podcast ding-dong has good info, so I always take that with a grain of salt. I feel like some of those guys just love the sound of their own voice.

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Michigan. We have zero restrictions on hogs. Had a decent population in the thumb area but that has been whipped out years ago. Much is the one state I doubt will ever have an issue. To many hunters and lots of small tracks of land. They would never survive opening day of deer season

skipglo said:

I for one...am the trust believer in Capitalism....until it has a negative effect on the welfare of not only National, but also International well being....Covid was a well planned and well played Socio- Economic test....but the Hogs are a true threat...they can't be eradicated with Greed!!!

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Usually it's not true capitalism that has the negative effect. That usually happens when the government or a government official get involved. Happens all the time. A grant here and not here. Picking and choosing winners and losers creating monopolies.

The government is never the solution to any problem.

In states with entrenched pig populations, hunting cannot keep up with breeding rates. If you can wipe them out early you have a chance. But once they're settled in, no amount of hunting will control the population. Hunt farms however have a history of bringing in pigs for people to shoot and perpetuating the problem, since they're making money off of it (even if the same pigs are destroying someone else's crop). The only semi functional method of removing pigs is mass trapping, and even that hasn't been able to eradicate them in places like the south. It just slows them down a bit.

If Ohio followed up the hunting ban by subsidizing landowners to remove pigs or hiring trappers to whittle down the population before it balloons, I could see that being effective.

marksman1941 said:

In states with entrenched pig populations, hunting cannot keep up with breeding rates. If you can wipe them out early you have a chance. But once they're settled in, no amount of hunting will control the population. Hunt farms however have a history of bringing in pigs for people to shoot and perpetuating the problem, since they're making money off of it (even if the same pigs are destroying someone else's crop). The only semi functional method of removing pigs is mass trapping, and even that hasn't been able to eradicate them in places like the south. It just slows them down a bit.

If Ohio followed up the hunting ban by subsidizing landowners to remove pigs or hiring trappers to whittle down the population before it balloons, I could see that being effective.

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You are correct. People see the $$$$ and before they know it there are too many to eradicate. Trapping entire sounders is really the only way to control them and very few do that. I love to hunt them but I do it on state land and it will never control the population. Texas needs to have more public hunts but it creates more work for the wildlife biologists so they are not too keen on doing it. Plus, there is no shortage of knuckleheads that show up to hunt, I would tire of them too.

snox801 said:

Michigan. We have zero restrictions on hogs. Had a decent population in the thumb area but that has been whipped out years ago. Much is the one state I doubt will ever have an issue. To many hunters and lots of small tracks of land. They would never survive opening day of deer season

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I didn't know that about Michigan. Now if they could just get those deer hunters to shoot enough does! Just read an article the other day about how they can't seem to get people to harvest does. Any truth to that one? They do seem like a slightly friendlier pest than a hog.

Hogs are like cockroaches. Ain't nobody hurting the population, be it trappers, heli hunters, sport hunters, dedicated removal specialists, etc., just like with cockroaches. You can treat a house, but that does nothing for the population. EVERY house on my block uses an exterminator. We all treat for roaches. Yet roaches still come back.

However, each of these methods works on a property by property basis, just like when the exterminator treats your house. The problem either way is that the rest of the world isn't being addressed. As one hunter told me, "I have eradicated hogs from this property 6 times, but eventually they come back." That is because he didn't eradicate them on all the properties surrounding his property, and then the properties around those. So we have ongoing re-infestation, plain and simple.

The problem isn't going away if landowners don't charge for hunting. Charge or not, there will be plenty of properties that don't allow hunting (paid or otherwise) that will be sanctuary and breeding properties.

QuietTexan said:

But judging by how many people are buying traps, complaining about damage, and trying to get rid of the pigs, seems like there's a lot more of me out there and the ones who think there's a benefit.

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Three properties I hunt were properties landowners attempted trapping over the years. Trapping is a lot of work. As one of them told me, "I am a cattle rancher, not a hog rancher."

It is all a lot of work. Some of the work is enjoyable. Some, not so much.

like everything else they pass laws they know nothing about and remember its only illegal if they catch you!

sierrastalker said:

I didn't know that about Michigan. Now if they could just get those deer hunters to shoot enough does! Just read an article the other day about how they can't seem to get people to harvest does. Any truth to that one? They do seem like a slightly friendlier pest than a hog.

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LET THE PA GAME COMMISSION MANAGE YOUR DOE THEY WILL GET RID OF THEM.

sierrastalker said:

I didn't know that about Michigan. Now if they could just get those deer hunters to shoot enough does! Just read an article the other day about how they can't seem to get people to harvest does. Any truth to that one? They do seem like a slightly friendlier pest than a hog.

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That is true. They keep making the wrong choices. They have several groups like sci that come in and tell them what changes the hunters want. Then they still do exactly what they planned. Our hunting participation is done 50 percent in just the last few years. The answer was to make the youth hunt and disabled vets hunts for only. Those hunts only took roughly 6-8k deer a year. And that number will be in the hundreds being doe only on hot days.
Haven't dropped the price for doe tags, and still give each hunter two bucks. So nobody is gonna waste the few days they have shooting doe when they have buck tags. Then they refuse to allow baiting again.
So much farm land they need a reason to leave the crops. Even if they made people do broadcast feeders. If cwd was spread by feeders Texas wouldn't have any deer left.

I do my part with doe but with smaller tracts of land they get wise and you can only harvest so many before they don't show up.