Barbour Creek student take antelope @ 1507 yards

LRNut said:

Check my math? Shoot holes in it - explain how you can measure wind perfectly (because that is what it takes to hit at that distance) AND be sure it doesn't change in the nearly 3 second TOF. Every one mph of wind blows the OPs bullet nearly 20" - that is twice as large as the vital area of an antelope. Again, if you shoot 7.5 inch groups at that distance (1/2 MOA), you will have a 100% chance of a miss if you miss the wind by .44 mph. In my experience, the wind almost never stays within .44 mph over a 3 second period when its average speed is 6 mph.

I shoot every day at LR; shot today at 784 and 1183 so I am speaking from experience, not a keyboard. I didn't even mention the fact that you need extremely low SDs or you will see vertical error as well. The factory load mentioned has a MV of 2695. What if it was only 2690? You hit 5 inches low, but you still have a 50% chance of hitting because half your bullets are going to hit above your center of aim. However, once your MV deviates by only 10 fps, you have a 100% chance of missing due to vertical error.

Maybe James can tell us how well his students do at wind estimation. Like I said, if you could measure wind perfectly using nothing but mirage guys like @DocUSMCRetired would not be spending his time trying to come up with a better solution.

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Wy Will said:

Barbour literally admits that he told them not to shoot past 1100 due to the bullet velocities. He chose not to listen. I imagine the shooter does not have more experience than Barbour. That alone is evidence enough that they were unsure that the bullet would function at that distance.

The ELDM is not marketed as a hunting bullet, but its lethality has been tested extensively. This is why nobody has an issue with the bullet selection. Everyone has an issue with the speed that the bullet was traveling at impact.

Your comparison of the 215 Berger is pointless. You shot a much larger bullet out of a magnum cartridge at a shorter distance.

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bigngreen said:

It seems the experience level on this forum has significantly degraded over the year.
Once your at the level the OP is at your managing the variable so well you don't miss on game, you recognize a shot that is doable, you manage the details, you have a competent spotter give you input, that goat was as dead at 1500 as it would be at 400. The percentage of wounded game is significantly higher by people at close range who haven't cared enough about the game to put serious effort into shooting.
The people I know who can shoot at this elite level while hunting got there because they are holding themselves to a higher standard and then take action on that and with that come the potential for more range which is just a tool in a hunters toolbox making them better at what the end goal is and that is a clean kill!!

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69precision said:

That is factually incorrect. Not taking about ethics but statistics and physics. Putting aside the myriad other variables, missing a wind call by only a couple mph would result in a bad hit or miss at 1500 but not at 400. And there is a lot more possibility for varying winds across 1500 yards than 400.
And nobody is "managing the variable so well they don't miss" at 1500+ yards with a 6.5cm. And nobody ever talks about when they wound or miss. Back in "94 my buddy shot an elk with a 30-06 that we later measured at 990 yards. The part of the story I know, that he usually leaves out, is by the time he hit it he was on his second box of ammo.

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LRNut said:

Check my math? Shoot holes in it -

I shoot every day at LR; shot today at 784 and 1183 so I am speaking from experience, not a keyboard.

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ohlongarmisle said:

Where was he hit under the snout and was drt?a very valid question that needs answering,something smells here,BS maybe I surely hope not.

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RichCoyle said:

That "BS" thing for you is a really big deal!

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Rick Richard said:

Why?
Jealousy, arrogance, ego, little man syndrome, eternal pessimist, envy, WOKE………

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69precision said:

I can't speak for others, but for me it's just the bs meter, especially when people start spouting that someone with training can do this every time. It is a low percentage shot that this guy would miss a lot of the time for all the mathematical reasons articulated a couple posts above.

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SeboCreek said:

Anybody have any great plans for the weekend?

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JAYgs8163 said:

Yup, packing for a 2 week jaunt to Italy. Going Truffle Hunting in Tuscany.

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dfanonymous said:

So don't make a bad wind call. You guys are all doing the analysis paralysis.

If you hold a or any PRS titles, did you go home because the wind was tricky? Did you nerd out on hit probability on the stage? Just figure it out, or go home. You think it's luck, most people in the top spots stay in the top spots. It's luck if you can't reproduce it.

Do you think Litz and the AB team at Ko2M just or any of the other top competitors complain it's impossible to get the wind right? Or do they just do it and get it done?

That's the problem with the numbers argument. Make the right wind call. Shoot the wind. If you don't know how, then don't. If you do, go do the thing.

Sniper school pass fail shots, how do you think the instructors will respond when you come complaining about the course schedule distances and "the numbers being hard."

Perform or don't. It's that simple.

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RichCoyle said:

That "BS" thing for you is a really big deal!

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