Good information on annealing

Where can I find good and reliable information on annealing? I've been trying to find as much good information as I can. I know very little about it other than the tools, procedures, and why you do it. I'm not shooting competitively. Just a novice in search of small groups. I've seen everything from drills and sockets, to rotary turntables and torches, and of course the talked about but very pricey AMP machine. The Anneal-Rite even caught my attention. https://www.cartridgeanneal.com/anneal-rite-cartridge-annealing-machines/ Here is what I'm after. I just want to increase the precision of my handloads. If I get longer case life, that's a plus. The AMP machine is just out of the question. Way too much money. If I choose the cheapest route using a drill and socket, will that anneal the case necks evenly? If the case necks are annealed unevenly, will that be detrimental to accuracy? Is it possible to anneal the case necks unevenly? When I'm talking about annealing unevenly, I am talking about the same case neck be annealed unevenly. I understand that between different cases that you have to time how long they are in the flame to keep them consistent from one case to the next. Why doesn't there seem to be a lot of good information available on the subject? Why don't the major reloading tool suppliers such as RCBS, Hornady, etc. offer there own annealing machines? Maybe I just need to try it and see what difference it makes on velocity and on paper.

Got a pal or 4 to split an AMP with?

Check out this article on Primal Rights, Inc:

Annealing - How To Do It Right, Every Time

I have a friend with an AMP. He destroyed a piece of my brass to get the AZTEC "code" or setting for all future anneal sessions. He annealed 100 piece's of my brass I used for bench rest competition. I flame annealed another 100 at home on my Ugly Annealer after adjusting the timer setting to take the brass out of the flame as soon as it starts to glow orange.
I shot 6ea 5-shot groups alternating between AMP and flame annealed brass at 100yds, I Then measured the groups using ballistic X. There was no statistical difference on target group size, ES or SD. So i skipped the AMP after that and i only flame anneal at home on my Ugly Annealer.
BTW, Erik Cortina did the same test at 1000 yards and he DID see the AMP shot better groups, however the difference was very small.
There are several good flame annealing machines out there under $300. Some are even on Amazon. Just make sure you select one that does not have plastic parts in contact with hot brass. They will melt and stick to the brass when processing large batches. A unit with a digital timer is a must have for consistency.

MarkInPA said:

Why doesn't there seem to be a lot of good information available on the subject?

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There is, on the AMP website.

But somehow, despite them putting in their research that flame annealing works, guys get mad and refuse to credit the generalized information not dependent on heat source because the source is totally obviously completely entirely biased (/sarc) towards AMP machines because AMP did the research. Again, even though they outright say that multiple heat sources work.

Would you consider salt bath annealing?

ShtrRdy said:

Would you consider salt bath annealing?

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Not me too dangerous

Get an Annie annealer . I have one and 2 of my buds are running them too

I have an AMP....

If you start with a premium brand of brass in a single batch (Lapua-ADG-Peterson) you will not notice a difference.

Read up on Alex wheeler current loading technique. It is absolute bare minimum.

If you really want to just test some things out use a drill and socket. Heat until it glows and test it. Cheap and easy.

Or if you want to test what an AMP can do there are many members in this forum with one who would gladly do a small batch for you to test if you so choose.

You can do things like just sizing bushing to minimize how much the neck gets work hardened.

Any finally.... what are you hoping to gain? Brass life? Primer pockets go before necks wear out in my experience. Accuracy? It won't shrink your groups in half.

Unless you know exactly what you are doing it introduces a lot of unknowns and can really make your results questionable, or you could ruin a whole batch of brass.

Start simple and prove to yourself it is worth it. I don't think it is.

ShtrRdy said:

Would you consider salt bath annealing?

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exactly what i do. no more dangerous than reloading

I anneal with a flame, the most important factor to know and understand unconditionally is that annealing is the process of HEATING & TIME. One without the other is meaningless.
When I started, I had very basic tools, so I took what I thought was the most consistent factory brass, Winchester, put it in the hardness tester and got the Rockwell average number and proceeded to anneal all my brass to the same number. This proved difficult due to my equipment.
Now that I have 2 EP Intergrations set-ups combined, I can get those numbers consistently. An AMP would simplify this process, but it is not worth the cost IMHO.
Having said all that, even with uneven markings on the case shoulders, I have never seen a difference on target between the 2, as long as the neck has been heated correctly, how the colour goes into the body appears non-consequential.

Cheers.

nwmnbowhunter said:

Unless you know exactly what you are doing it introduces a lot of unknowns and can really make your results questionable, or you could ruin a whole batch of brass.

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This is my concern.

338 dude said:

Not me too dangerous

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I did salt bath annealing for a bit too, and the danger of burning the place down, or burning myself was too high for me, so i sold it.

nwmnbowhunter said:

You can do things like just sizing bushing to minimize how much the neck gets work hardened.

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Combined with starting with good brass, this seems to resonate with me.

When I started loading for my 308 in earnest, I had about 140 Federal several times fired brass that came with the rifle.
I hadn't heard about annealing so the brass just went from the bench to the gun and back through the neck size die (it was a Ruger #1) it consistently shot 3 shot 1" groups at 100 meters and the same 20 cases got reloaded about 15 times with me plus whatever they were reloaded before my ownership.
I sold the gun and the cases are still in use in my blr but get full length resized now. At 21 reloads some of the necks started cracking so I retired that bunch and I never annealled them once, still got good groups with them.
I bought a savage 1899 in 22 hi power and started resizing 30/30 brass to suit, this was when I started annealing the cases.
I use the drill and blowlamp procedure and shudder when I read about orange glow above, as soon as there's a color change I stop the process, works for me and just costs the gas to burn in the blowlamp.
As I reload for my 30/30 as well I started annealing the necks of the used cases I have as they are all full length resized for that gun.
I was advised by someone that federal uses softer brass than other mainstream case manufacturers, preferring the ability to obdurate in the chamber.
I can't verify this but it's why I pointedly advised that the cases that gave me real long life without annealing were Federal. Just saying.