exploding bullets on impact...is this real or are people guessing?

bigngreen said:

As long as it fits your narrative right! Many, many guys have had a Barnes fail but you don't count I bet since learning from other failures, even one time, would mean there likely would not be a bullet available to hunt with without some odds of an issue!

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bigngreen, I've had bullets that I've been disappointed with, but only one that absolutely failed (by my standards, not those of many here). I've been very pleased and successful with mono bullets. Though, once an antelope, hit "very" low in the chest....didn't leave blood for about 30 yards. The Antelope went down at around 40 to 45. And unless pushed very fast, shots over 800 or 900 should not be taken with a Barnes. Though, in reality an unexpanded bullet through bone and vitals, is likely more effective than one that "fragments" on the surface .....creating a shallow wound!

One should certainly operate within the performance limits of their chosen bullet. In summary: I will not take shots beyond 700 yards, and perhaps many here shouldn't take shots at less than 400 or 500 yards. I'll work within my limits.....but, will these other "sportsmen"! memtb

Blow-ups are due to a combination of things - bullet mass, construction, velocity and material impacted.

Over the years I've seen more animals wounded and lost after being shot with a .243 than probably all other calibers combined. As a result I'm a big fan of monos (Barnes tipped bullets in particular), bonded core, hybrid (bonded front core, mono rear) and Partition/A-Frame type construction.

I once shot a Nosler 40g BT varmint bullet into a tin can containing a terrycloth rag that had soaked up some oil, so partially wet, partially dry. The can was on its side with the bottom facing me. The muzzle velocity was 4052fps, range around 40-50 yards. The interesting thing was no noticeable exit with lots of shrapnel holes and dents in the sides of the can.

Another time I used the same load to shoot a coyote at 300 yards. The bullet entered the rear of the head, killing it instantly. A single drop of blood was seen in one ear. No exit wound of any kind. Try as I might, I can't see a significantly heavier or more solidly constructed bullet doing so little visible damage.

Over the years I've killed elk with cup and core bullets, monos and hybrids, 140g to 225g, no problems. When my .257 Roberts gets carried, a 120g A-Frame is in the spout.

I have had it happen three times. Once was on a badger. 223 with a 36 grain hp. Shot him at less than 100 yards. Between a quarter to 50 cent piece hole where bullet hit at the shoulder. He ran a ways but died soon. Next was on 2 pigs. 150 lbs and 250 lbs shot seconds apart. 100 and 200 yards. 139 grain journeys that were very old and probably meant for a 7 mauser. At 7 mag velocity they hit the shoulder and blew up. Shot the little one again in the head. While cleaning I couldn't find anything that penetrated the chest cavity on the big one but she was drt,with no sign of organ damage. Anybody got any ideas?--to much shock for the organs or brain?

It sounds like hydraulic shock I used to load my 223 with 55 grain sierra game king bullets so they did that so as not to damage too much fur . They would go stiff legged and tip over . I think it ruptured a lot of blood vessels in the brain and they never regained consciousness .

I don't know where I read this , perhaps JOC years ago. The gist of the article was how that 220 swift outpenetrated a .30 cal( 30/06?) in mild steel plate.
I don't remember the details, but it brought the bullet penetration discussion into a new place.
I would like to read this again, either Jack or Warren Page or I'm dreaming it up. Nobody shot steel in those days
Hey, maybe- never say never

Antonio m said:

I don't know where I read this , perhaps JOC years ago. The gist of the article was how that 220 swift outpenetrated a .30 cal( 30/06?) in mild steel plate.
I don't remember the details, but it brought the bullet penetration discussion into a new place.
I would like to read this again, either Jack or Warren Page or I'm dreaming it up. Nobody shot steel in those days
Hey, maybe- never say never

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I remember the article! A bit of a shock! Had to be frontal area and velocity. I guess when I start "hunting steel", I'll have to go out and buy a 22-250! memtb

Ol' Roy did some of that testing, also.

Orange Dust said:

I have not shot either of those. I do know they should
hold together in most cases. This type of bullet in general doesn't blood shot as much meat as a regular cup and core unless you hit heavy bone at close range. Then the shattered bone becomes secondary projectiles and can cause quite the mess. My first guess is I wouldn't want to be shot with either of those out of an edge. Going up to a .338 gives you some cushion that the smaller calibers just don't have. My guess is the 252's would penetrate nearly as well as a cup and core 300, but that is only a guess. I highly suspect it is enough gun for anything in N America that gets on the wrong end of it. If it is not, run like crazy the other way. You have just PO'd one bad animal.

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Yes you are right i shoot both and i have not had a issue with either pill. i normally get a pass through at 500 and in. I have found that the 252 mth acts really close to the 300 smk as penatration goes.but this is mainly with wild hog and these hogs are large all being 200 pounds and up.

memtb said:

bigngreen, I've had bullets that I've been disappointed with, but only one that absolutely failed (by my standards, not those of many here). I've been very pleased and successful with mono bullets. Though, once an antelope, hit "very" low in the chest....didn't leave blood for about 30 yards. The Antelope went down at around 40 to 45. And unless pushed very fast, shots over 800 or 900 should not be taken with a Barnes. Though, in reality an unexpanded bullet through bone and vitals, is likely more effective than one that "fragments" on the surface .....creating a shallow wound!

One should certainly operate within the performance limits of their chosen bullet. In summary: I will not take shots beyond 700 yards, and perhaps many here shouldn't take shots at less than 400 or 500 yards. I'll work within my limits.....but, will these other "sportsmen"! memtb

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I agree that the shooter full well knows what he or she bullits they have loaded or bought are capable of as far as distance is concerned. I allways keep two differant loads in my rifle first is long range round which are single loads. Then i have two rounds that are for short distance. that way i am prepared for either range. There is another guy on lrh that does the same but he is in bear country so he keeps rounds loaded for bear.

Mustang72 said:

I have had it happen three times. Once was on a badger. 223 with a 36 grain hp. Shot him at less than 100 yards. Between a quarter to 50 cent piece hole where bullet hit at the shoulder. He ran a ways but died soon. Next was on 2 pigs. 150 lbs and 250 lbs shot seconds apart. 100 and 200 yards. 139 grain journeys that were very old and probably meant for a 7 mauser. At 7 mag velocity they hit the shoulder and blew up. Shot the little one again in the head. While cleaning I couldn't find anything that penetrated the chest cavity on the big one but she was drt,with no sign of organ damage. Anybody got any ideas?--to much shock for the organs or brain?

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Hogs have a plate of grissle and fat on their shoulder area you probally hit that. alot of people that hog hunt use a 458 lot in a ar 15 platform.

Yes they have that plate but I have killed to many to remember with a 223 and a 308. Most of the ones with the 308 did exactly like a bullet should. Same plain Jane hornady interlocks and about the same age as the ones from the 7 mag. I think it was the extra velocity and age combo. When I say they blew up I mean they disintegrated. Very small pieces of copper and trace lead that looked like powder. While shoulder was trashed. Nothing past shoulder. The ones from the 308 usually separate some but stop at off side hide or the biggest part exits. Looked like I hit it with a v-max from a 22_250.

Mustang72, interlocks are very good Bullets, when used inside their velocity window. For my cartridge/ bullet combo....this seemed to be under 2800 fps. When pushed harder, the combination of bullet weight loss and large frontal area....penetration was reduced! memtb

Mustang72 said:

Yes they have that plate but I have killed to many to remember with a 223 and a 308. Most of the ones with the 308 did exactly like a bullet should. Same plain Jane hornady interlocks and about the same age as the ones from the 7 mag. I think it was the extra velocity and age combo. When I say they blew up I mean they disintegrated. Very small pieces of copper and trace lead that looked like powder. While shoulder was trashed. Nothing past shoulder. The ones from the 308 usually separate some but stop at off side hide or the biggest part exits. Looked like I hit it with a v-max from a 22_250.

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I hunt hogs for a living here in south florida i hunt the produce farms here.so i allso have taken alot of them i used to use a ar 15 223. SO i have seen bullets not working as advertized.i have found bullets stuck in the plate some exploded and most just stuck in the plate partly expanded.I use the 458 lott now and do not have any issues with that round.

I shot a woodchuck over the summer with my 260 and 143 eld x bullets. Impact velocity was about 2700. I don't know what I hit on that woodchuck but I didn't get an exit wound like I wanted. There was a very big entrance and the bullet had fragmented inside. I imagine on something tougher like a deer that bullet might not have killed it even with good shot placement. I imagine there was just something wrong with that particular bullet. I gave the rest of the box away for someone to do barrel break in and I switched to Barnes lrx. Shot a doe with one the other day and was very pleased with the results.