Rem. 700 fires when safety is used!

[Fiftydriver]

I've had that happen with unmodified Remington triggers, and seen it in others. One cause is getting to much of the wrong kind of lube, it gets cold, or accumulates a bit of grime and it will fire when the safety is pushed forward. The aftermarkets are a step in the right direction, I've also used the Gentry 3 position safety with success. Installation is a bit trickier than advertised, it's not a substitute for muzzle control, but a better mechanical safety in my opinion.

The striker lock safety systems such as the Gentry is a great option but it also can have issues. I have seen situatons where the cocking piece retainer on the trigger got hung up in the trigger housing and did not return to battery properly or was knocked out of position while the safety was engaged, then when the safety was dropped, the striker fell.

Again, all safeties can fail, DO NOT depend on them to save your butt!!

 

[HARPERC]

Again, all safeties can fail, DO NOT depend on them to save your butt!!

It's worth repeating.

I'm not much good with mechanical stuff, and one of my safety rules is I don't mess with triggers and safeties. The Gentry while a good system, has not been a drop in change over. Find a good smith like Kirby, and let them show off their capabilities.

 

[varmintH8R]

smith in town had a Jewell trigger he is putting in tonight

I like your fix! A rifle firing when it is not supposed to is not a DIY project, IMO. You'll love your Jewell, good luck on your hunt!

 

[Trickymissfit]

I think IdahoCTD nailed it..
436

The idea of a Remington 700 firing when the safety is released is not new, and has been around for a lot longer than most of us have been shooting. I had one that did it, and it went thru three different gunsmiths with the same results. The last one was Ferris Pindell, and he said that it just needed to be tossed. Something about the "J Lock" design. He gave me a 1978 trigger that he'd worked over, and never missed a beat. Mike Walker was probably the first guy to encounter this issue (he designed the Mod. 700), and he submitted a revised design. It was rejected! I've since seen two other factory stock 700's do this (both were right out of the box). With my 700 and this issue, the trigger pull was just slightly under three pounds (about 2.8lb.), and only had this issue about once in twenty rounds.

I'd just replace the trigger with a Rifle Basix and be done with it.
gary

 

[MontanaRifleman]

My view on safeties is probably gonna be a little controversial. When I went through Hunter's Saftey many years ago, I was taught to NEVER trust a saftey because it was a mechanical device and it can and will fail. This has already been mentioned. I think we might be better off without the mechanical safety that can and does fail. If there was no safety, we would not depend on it. Since there is a safety, we do in fact overly depend on it. I say this because I have seen a lot of folks point their muzzle recklessly in any direction without thought of who or what it is pointing at.

Where is the safety on a revolver or a single shot shotgun?

The ultimate safety is how you HANDLE your weapon. If your muzzle is NEVER POINTED at anyone it will NEVER HARM anyone.

That said, the best trigger/safety on a Remington is something other than a Remington trigger/safety.

 

[Trickymissfit]

My view on safeties is probably gonna be a little controversial. When I went through Hunter's Saftey many years ago, I was taught to NEVER trust a saftey because it was a mechanical device and it can and will fail. This has already been mentioned. I think we might be better off without the mechanical safety that can and does fail. If there was no safety, we would not depend on it. Since there is a safety, we do in fact overly depend on it. I say this because I have seen a lot of folks point their muzzle recklessly in any direction without thought of who or what it is pointing at.

Where is the safety on a revolver or a single shot shotgun?

The ultimate safety is how you HANDLE your weapon. If your muzzle is NEVER POINTED at anyone it will NEVER HARM anyone.

That said, the best trigger/safety on a Remington is something other than a Remington trigger/safety.

Maybe I'm the odd man out, but with the Remington, I just leave the bolt about halfway open. Then when I'm ready to shoot, I close it. The one safety I always had an issue with was the one that Remington and others mounted on the trigger guard. Just never trusted it (shotguns).

When I was going thru basic training in the Army, we were lectured about the safety and the M14 rifle at the range (well a couple guys also got a size 14 boot in their butts as well). After all was said and done, and right before we went to the line for our first shots, he loads an M14 rifle, and starts tamping it's butt end on a block of hardwood. After about four or five tamps the rifle went off with the safety engaged! A deeply engraved impression! Much later I had to go thru a week long M16 orientation (only guys from the "big four" went). It was pretty easy and I never had any issues. Then we started doing full auto stuff. One mag right after another as fast as we could shoot four or five shot bursts. They call a check fire to point out some issues that a few of us had, and no one was within eight feet of a rifle. A rifle had a cook off and went thru about ten rounds! If I remember right the safety was engaged! Never trusted a safety ever again!
gary

 

[Deleted member 48126]

The Army overly relies on safeties. It drives me crazy. I would much rather have my M4 not cocked with the safety off, but at ranges NCOs have you cock your weapon just so they can see the safety is engaged. Safeties are worthless in automatic weapons. 249 and 240B cook off all the time. Sorry off topic...just interesting how people rely on them.

 

[Trickymissfit]

The Army overly relies on safeties. It drives me crazy. I would much rather have my M4 not cocked with the safety off, but at ranges NCOs have you cock your weapon just so they can see the safety is engaged. Safeties are worthless in automatic weapons. 249 and 240B cook off all the time. Sorry off topic...just interesting how people rely on them.

I must have shot 10,000 rounds thru an M60, and never had a cook off, but I did have the classic runaway a couple times while spraying and praying thru two or three belts real fast. Nice thing about them is all you gotta do is twist the belt.

I always was the number one man, and always left in rock & roll, but there was never anybody in front of me that was friendly. The guys behind me used safteys. Going out the other side the first guy out #3 man carried the 79, and as soon as he touched the ground he flicked the safety off and came up behind me on my left side with the radio right behind him. He was key to hitting anything with the M60 after two belts went thru it. I stayed away from the other three guys as I didn't trust them, safety or no safety. The only gun I ever trusted the safety on was a model 12 shotgun, and that safety didn't work! Always wondered how many guys got shot by friendly fire in close contact due to safety issues alone. Walking in the #2 slot was always scarey, and you didn't know what some fool behind you was going to do. I knew one guy that had a grenade land in his lap (ours), and only to have a bad fuse! The guy raised so much hell that I thought he was going to shoot a couple guys behind him and me.
gary

 

[Brad615]

I was hunting this past sunday 12/8/13 with a rem 700 7mm rm & as a deer came out (small deer that i didnt intend to shoot) I moved my safety from safe to fire position just in case a bigger deer followed & my gun went off!!! Luckily i have always practiced gun safety & the gun was pointed in a safe position. I have heard this happening to other guys but was a first for me. I was a little rattled to say the least, thank god no one was hurt or even killed!! This was the mark x pro trigger & I say was because the second i got home a timney was purchased, looking forward to the install. My problem is with remington! & I'm a huge remington fan but when does someone at remington pull there head out of their as$ & fix this dangerous issue??? I mean someone could have been killed! From the web sites I have been reading this is a pretty common issue! So anyone out there reading this do yourself & the people around you a huge favor, if your going to buy a remington with the mark x pro either purchase a trigger/safety asap or better yet stop buying the remington with the mark x pro & maybe that will get remington to fix this issue! Since people getting injured or even killed doesn't seem to phase remington then it's sad but hit em in the pocket book & don't purchase thier product that has a mark x pro!!!!!!gun)Good luck hunting/shooting & stay safe!!!!

 

[Deleted member 48126]

I think it was an older issue before the xmark pro. There were issues in the early 90s as well. Also, that's why you're a true fire arm enthusiast. Your rifle discharging doesn't affect anything since you clearly practice firearm safety (not down playing the incident). All the clowns who are filing law suits were cleaning their weapons when they went off, pointing them at others, or had a ridiculous caliber loaded with a heavy bullet that punched through 3 houses before it killed someone relaxing in their living rooms. It is Remington's fault for the default but at the end day it's just a tool at the mercy of its owner.

 

[John-Pure Precision]

I must have shot 10,000 rounds thru an M60, and never had a cook off, but I did have the classic runaway a couple times while spraying and praying thru two or three belts real fast. Nice thing about them is all you gotta do is twist the belt.

I always was the number one man, and always left in rock & roll, but there was never anybody in front of me that was friendly. The guys behind me used safteys. Going out the other side the first guy out #3 man carried the 79, and as soon as he touched the ground he flicked the safety off and came up behind me on my left side with the radio right behind him. He was key to hitting anything with the M60 after two belts went thru it. I stayed away from the other three guys as I didn't trust them, safety or no safety. The only gun I ever trusted the safety on was a model 12 shotgun, and that safety didn't work! Always wondered how many guys got shot by friendly fire in close contact due to safety issues alone. Walking in the #2 slot was always scarey, and you didn't know what some fool behind you was going to do. I knew one guy that had a grenade land in his lap (ours), and only to have a bad fuse! The guy raised so much hell that I thought he was going to shoot a couple guys behind him and me.
gary

300whisper, I believe you should revisit your weapons conditions. I was a SAW gunner on a QRF team and used every heavy machine gun the Marine Corps had while in combat. Never had a safety malfunction. Also the 50 M2 does not have a safety except for a spent piece of brass under the butterfly. Hell our M1A2 tank had about a 16 inch bar for a safety that the loader operated. I bet I lased and tried to fire over 50 times without the safety being off and no malfunctions. So your statement about weapons that fire with a open bolt is false and has no relevance to this conversation. People are sheep now days, to afraid to stray from the herd. Me personally will stand up to Remington, at least I can say to myself that I maid a difference for me, my family and the people around me.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

I bet I lased and tried to fire over 50 times without the safety being off and no malfunctions. So your statement about weapons that fire with a open bolt is false and has no relevance to this conversation.

It does have relevance since I was speaking solely on not trusting a safety, which was mentioned a couple of times in the thread. My only experience when I have seen a weapon on safe and then fire is with the M249 or M240. I thought thats were the conversation evolved too. I wasnt bashing the M249 or M240 just what I have seen it at ranges and a couple of times in AFG. I love the M240B. I know youre the OP so Ill stay on topic. Did you watch the video on dateline about remington? I thought it was interesting. I still like remington, I have jewel triggers on mine to not worry about that issue.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I think it was an older issue before the xmark pro. There were issues in the early 90s as well. Also, that's why you're a true fire arm enthusiast. Your rifle discharging doesn't affect anything since you clearly practice firearm safety (not down playing the incident). All the clowns who are filing law suits were cleaning their weapons when they went off, pointing them at others, or had a ridiculous caliber loaded with a heavy bullet that punched through 3 houses before it killed someone relaxing in their living rooms. It is Remington's fault for the default but at the end day it's just a tool at the mercy of its owner.

I never saw an X mark trigger foul up. But I've always felt it was in their safety design, and not so much in the trigger. I think this simply adds fuel to what I've said in the past about the safety design being at issue.

Now there have been many documented instances of the rifles firing while releasing the safety, and in most cases they users were not cleaning the rifle. I've had it happen at the range more than I like to admit. The trigger I'm using right now was built by Ferris Pendell, and he said the factory trigger in my rifle was junk, and never trust a safety. I've also seen three or four out of a batch of six that fired when the safety was released (right out of the box and still had the hang tags on them). I'm not sure what the problem really is, but Mike Walker knew. He new twenty five years ago!

When I'm at the range, I am one of those guys that like to remove the bolt when not shooting. When I'm ready to start shooting and the down range is clear, I'll replace the bolt. After a hand full of unplanned let offs, I don't like taking chances. I have never had this issue hunting, but I've never hunted with that particular rifle with the original OEM trigger. Even with Ferris' trigger, I don't take chances (he even advised me about that).

What I'd like to see from Remington, is a complete bolt / trigger / safety redesign to forever rid any thought of these issues. It's not the brand name here, but a failure to admit there an issue and to correct it.
gary

 

[varmintH8R]

When I'm at the range, I am one of those guys that like to remove the bolt when not shooting.

I'm with you on that, for lots of reasons! Never found one that will shoot without a bolt, unintentionally or otherwise. Also nice to know some jackwagon can't slide in behind your rifle when you are downrange, and it is also a disincentive for said jackwagon to walk off with it (though certainly doesn't prevent it).