Bumpstocks banned

You listen to the audio of the Vegas massacre? I judged the rate of fire to be a full auto with a slow rate of fire. So I'm off this crusade.

If you oppose this Trump Admin, decision, I think it most consistent to oppose the ruling that outlaws personal ownership of machine guns. Good luck there. While you're at it, ask if you're doing yourself any favors in the defense of 2nd Amend rights. The NRA gets it. This cause is a complete loser. A losing fight. Best way to lose a fight is picking the losers.

Most gun owners will not slaughter people with a full auto high capacity firearm. All it takes is one psycho. A 'right' to have fun is the justification? Again, good luck with that. Might as well beat yourself with an ugly stick.

Have fun with firecrackers, if they're legal where you live. I live in the last frontier, and not even a humble firecracker is legal in my jurisdiction. Responsible for burning down multiple houses and that was the end of them. Never killed anyone. Illegal here. But the bump stock has killed a number in Vegas. Hmmmm....

Maybe this is simply common sense. And not the devious beginning of a conspiracy to take all our guns away. Should personal 'rights' supersede the common good. There are 1000s of examples that demonstrate they do not.

Well this should ignite a few bottle rockets. Some will have already departed earth's gravitational field. Where bump stocks aren't restricted.


So lets talk a bit about this bit

"Maybe this is simply common sense. And not the devious beginning of a conspiracy to take all our guns away. Should personal 'rights' supersede the common good. There are 1000s of examples that demonstrate they do not."

Personal Rights should always supersede the "common good". The Bill of Rights was written in the context of the individual. Tyranny is often justified with the common good. Is this the start of a conspiracy to take away our guns? Take a look at the statements that the anti gun crowd has said in the past for more on that. What this is in battlefield terms is terrain that we have surrendered to our adversary.

Can you expand a bit by what you meant in this statement please?

"You listen to the audio of the Vegas massacre? I judged the rate of fire to be a full auto with a slow rate of fire. So I'm off this crusade."
 
Since this is a public forum, let me say this: I am all for a bumpstock ban if it had been done this way; 1) Passed by Congress and the Senate, signed by the President. Since they are legally owned Personal Property, the bill should include either a Grandfather Clause, or compensation to the owners. This I would get behind and support. This is the traditional and proper way to ban anything. The issue I have with this is a non-elected Government Agency rewriting a duly passed law to suit the current Political Climate. I believe they neither have this power, nor should they. This is how this will, and should be tested in the Courts. If the people of this country lose this fight, I am afraid the Genie will be out of the bottle, never to return. Maybe I'm just a tired old fool, but lately it seems there are quite a few folks inside the beltway that have absolutely no respect for the rule of law if it interferes with their personal agenda. Moreover, there is no one up there that is willing to hold them accountable for those actions. I want my children and grandchildren to grow up in the country I did, with all the opportunity, privileges, and individual rights, that makes America unique among nations. Gun owners are easy to split with an issue like this. Push back against this ban will get little support. These folks are much smarter than we give them credit for. Some of them crave, and will stop at nothing to achieve power. We are standing in their way. They will divide and pick off little groups of us given the chance. They have always operated this way and will continue to do so given the opportunity. I am too old to fight or be of any threat to anyone. All I can possibly do is donate money to those who are willing to take this fight to the Courts, which I will. Even though it will make little or no difference in the grand scheme of things, and they will most likely lose, I will sleep better knowing at least I did do something.
 
If you have not read the 150+ page document that was released it was interesting and here are a couple of the highlights:

From page 24: 186,000 total comments. 119,264 comments in support of the ban and 66K comments opposed.

Page 83: Binary triggers will not be classified as machine guns as part of this ruling.

Current estimated number of devices in circulation is 280K to 520K

Average estimated per unit cost of $300 approx. was used in financial analysis with an impact in excess of $100M.

The department (ATF) makes several reference and supporting comments that this is being done in part as a public safety measure however the ATF is unable to provide any statistical data to support current or future usage against general public.

The ATF has not provide the technical response to date on the firearms used in the Las Vegas shooting. Therefor no formal document states that machine gun or a bump-stock was utilized. It is assumed but not formalized.

It will be interesting to see where this goes as many of the statements are around the guise of public safety. The question is what is next and will it be done through congress passing laws and changing the definition or an reclassification based on the opinions of no elected officials.
 
Exactly... It's all ********, and they're openly trying to screw us out of more rights, while circumventing the proper S.O.P. (Congress).

I've been supporting Trump since 2015 when he first announced his run. When Trump said "I like to take the guns first, then ask questions." I was in shock. I'm still not over that comment, his support of those ******** "red flag laws", and now this bumpstock ban is not helping my confidence to give him a vote in 2020. Not sure who I'll vote for, but for someone to say "I'll never let anything happen to your 2nd Amendment rights" during their campaign, and then he does more in 1 year to destroy them than any Democrat in history... Not really his biggest fan right now.
 
So lets talk a bit about this bit

"Maybe this is simply common sense. And not the devious beginning of a conspiracy to take all our guns away. Should personal 'rights' supersede the common good. There are 1000s of examples that demonstrate they do not."

Personal Rights should always supersede the "common good". The Bill of Rights was written in the context of the individual. Tyranny is often justified with the common good. Is this the start of a conspiracy to take away our guns? Take a look at the statements that the anti gun crowd has said in the past for more on that. What this is in battlefield terms is terrain that we have surrendered to our adversary.

Can you expand a bit by what you meant in this statement please?

"You listen to the audio of the Vegas massacre? I judged the rate of fire to be a full auto with a slow rate of fire. So I'm off this crusade."
What's to explain? What is unclear?

Do you seriously think I'm referring to the US Bill of Rights?

What you consider your personal, individual "right" does not supercede the common good. Your right to set off fireworks, no matter how much you value that activity, does not supercede the threat they pose to burning down the neighborhood. Same with a campfire during an outdoor burn ban. What you perceive as your right can be outlawed, made illegal, by societal law in the USA. It's always been so. Always will be, without regard to any individual belief, opinion, opposition.

Pulling out your version and interpretation of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights will not supercede societal/majority interpretation and application of those documents. I can't explain it any clearer.

Brass knuckles are illegal. Bump stocks will be in another 90 days. I am allowed to own an AR15. But not every weapon I think I have an individual 'right' to own, a personal right to own, can I legally own.

I'd like to own and have fun with plastic explosives. Without good cause and a multitude of licenses and permits, I never will. Unless I join the military.
 
I'd like to own and have fun with plastic explosives. Without good cause and a multitude of licenses and permits, I never will. Unless I join the military.

I've legally played with TNT, plastic explosives, shape charges, blasting caps, det. cord, and 2 part liquid explosives before and had nothing to do with mil or law enforcement--- wasnt too bad of a process to be able to do so
But 100% ban on a bump stock with no grandfather-tax stamp option-or reimbursement is a little over the top imo.
 
Unregulated to the same extent anyone could own a bump stock? Never said it was impossible. If that's the best counter, bump stocks are legally gone, forever and ever. Without regard to how you feel individually. Truth hurts...
 
If Obama understood what a bump stock was, and the purpose it served on a semi-auto rifle, they would have never been allowed in the first place. The Government incompetence is not now outlawing them. It was allowing unrestricted manufacture and sale in the first place. No different than bubble gum.

Now I await all the Likes. Should be at least 119,264 on their way, based on the prior post.
 
Unregulated to the same extent anyone could own a bump stock? Never said it was impossible. If that's the best counter, bump stocks are legally gone, forever and ever. Without regard to how you feel individually. Truth hurts...
Up until now anyone could own a bumpstock. However, not all of those people could own an AR15 to install it on. A bumpstock is not a firearm. Think about it. I have no idea why I am defending the stupid things. Never had or wanted one.
 
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