You can only get it from me Wildcats mentality.

[Timber338]

General question:

In any field, can an individual build anything he wants for his own use,
but cannot build it to SELL, if it violates another person's patent ?

Patent laws are written to promote and protect business. If you have an idea that you prototype or design on paper, you have a fixed period of time to patent and bring to market. Likewise, once you do that you are protected for a duration of time which prevents other from profiting from your idea.

If you do something on your own and do not try and profit from it then nobody is going to try and stop you, let alone even know about it. Even if I had a patent on widget X, and I see you made widget X in your garage, and just used it on your own with no plans to profit, then no laws have been broken.

Of course I'm not an attorney, but I've taken a handful of patent law courses in graduate school.

 

[Wedgy]

Fred, are you going to patent that low cost non lead plinking round ? I tried some of the Winchester non lead .22's again yesterday and they are a no go, and expensive. Ground squirrel season is almost upon us and I need something cheap and non lead, if that can go in the same sentence.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I think the whole thing is quite funny. Its all just a tease. I just quit reading their crap. Doesn't take long to see that they are completely full of themselves. Got a drawer full of wildcat reamers and a pile of barrels that were chambered with them doesn't mean they will do anything that another cartridge wont.....

Aaron

 

[Timber338]

I think the whole thing is quite funny. Its all just a tease. I just quit reading their crap. Doesn't take long to see that they are completely full of themselves. Got a drawer full of wildcat reamers and a pile of barrels that were chambered with them doesn't mean they will do anything that another cartridge wont.....

Aaron

Exactly!

 

[Nomosendero]

I think the whole thing is quite funny. Its all just a tease. I just quit reading their crap. Doesn't take long to see that they are completely full of themselves. Got a drawer full of wildcat reamers and a pile of barrels that were chambered with them doesn't mean they will do anything that another cartridge wont.....

Aaron

Pretty much
Not talking about patents and the business concerns but looking at Wildcats in general, I know there are designs that may give you a slight edge and years ago I was into that, but now that I am 63 I think more about what I will leave my 3 sons even though my health seems to be quite good now. I would rather think they could buy the ammo if they like, whether they load their own or not. Agreed, we may gain a little performance with a Wildcat but to say they are a game changer is rarely the case. But yea, egos are a big part of this.

 

[iowaelkbum]

In the world of wildcat cartridges, I think it would be difficult to defend a patent. I'm just going to throw out 2 cents of opinions. It will be hard to pass the non-obvious test in court. Litigation to defend a patent is expensive. It's especially expensive if your product hasn't made a large profit!

 

[Wedgy]

So should this one be named the .375 Jackass ? Or has it named itself....

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Fred, are you going to patent that low cost non lead plinking round ? I tried some of the Winchester non lead .22's again yesterday and they are a no go, and expensive. Ground squirrel season is almost upon us and I need something cheap and non lead, if that can go in the same sentence.

No but right now I'm at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Greyfox]

The world is currently going patent crazy and unfortunately it has even seeped into the shooting world. I just retired from a high tech career where you live or die when it comes to patents. I spent a great deal of time with patent attorneys. We won, lost, and settled.disputes on more occasions over the years then I can remember.
Some points about patents:
-Patents are all about commercial value. It is highly unlikely that going after an individual that has violated the patent for personal use of a proprietary rifle cartridge would be justified. If you decide to sell it and have any degree of success, then you may have trouble.
-Observe carefully whether the "idea" is "Patent Pending", or whether is has been actually "granted", as indicated by a patent number. Any one can submit an application and say "patent pending". Many times this is just a marketing ruse and meant to intimidate others from marketing the idea. A large percentage of these never get issued. But, if the pending patent gets issued, and you benefited commercially, they may come after you for those damages.
-Before a patent gets issued, there is a thorough investigation, focusing on aspects such as common practices, prior art, etc. If a patent is issued and you end up in court for violating it, there is a very good chance you will loose. The courts favor the patent holder.
-if you violate someone's patent knowingly or unknowingly, a court injunction obtained by the patent holder is needed to stop you from "selling".
-If it goes to court, it is VERY expensive for BOTH parties. A large number of cases are settled out of court or never pursued. The damages/gains are weighed against the legal costs.
-Damages are determined by the actual sales that were "lost" by the holder of the patent If the patent was violated intentionally, you can get hit for triple damages.

With all this, I seriously doubt that we would ever see any litigation over a patented "proprietary" cartridge, particularly in the small LR/ELR market segment. Even if the patent office unwittingly issued a patent, I think it could be one of the rare cases where one could beat it. There is a litany of prior art and common practice. But, no one in there right mind would ever spend the legal fees to bring it to litigation. As for an individual that wants to build a "proprietary" cartridge/barrel for personal use, I wouldn't be too concerned. IMO.

 

[FinnCollector]

Please show the round and rifle you shoot it in for every one of your magic designs and every caliber.

You seem to have fallen into a trap. Feel like a winter pine martin?

He's got at least one (sometimes two or three different caliber variants) cartridge of every single family of his wildcats, built in a rifle. That's a little bit of money spent, and none of it is for your benefit, you whiny internet do-nothing, who will never build **** anyway. You have stalked his threads over the past couple of years, with an imaginary ax to grind. If you don't care for his cartridges, don't open his threads and definitely DON'T POST IN THEM. Don't go away mad, just go away.

 

[stonehands1]

It has ever been that men want to be rewarded for their efforts.

It has ever been that men want to have control over others so as to be able to get profit.

This current emphasis on ELR is wonderful.

Control of every possible combination and enforcement of "patent" or "copyright" is not so cool.

I predict that there will be litigation filed between shooting enthusiasts one believing he has a "patent" or "copyright" the other perhaps not even aware that someone else "made" it first. It will be over pride and the belief that there is "profit" to be made. Fact: no one has ever made a profit from Wildcats that way.

I know more about business than I let on or that you would believe.

If you are not an ELR enthusiast, you may see this as not important to you. If you are an ELR enthusiast you may see this as "I will make my own" or "I won't go there now". The result is actually a stifling of the possible participants.

As a possible business the plan of "they have to get it from me", has never worked very well or for very long. Except printer cartridges. It seems to work for printer cartridges. I feel that is because the printers are actually the best for the money and sold as cheap as possible with long term profit coming from the cartridges.

This would only work in ELR if you sold or gave away the rifle with a round that you could only get from the rifle maker.

So what's your point exactly? You answered all your own questions. Told us your gods gift to business. No one ever makes money selling wildcats and that you think making money is bad. What the heck does that have to do with elr?

 

[iowaelkbum]

This might be helpful to someone. What is Intellectual Property?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

He's got at least one (sometimes two or three different caliber variants) cartridge of every single family of his wildcats, built in a rifle. That's a little bit of money spent, and none of it is for your benefit, you whiny internet do-nothing, who will never build **** anyway. You have stalked his threads over the past couple of years, with an imaginary ax to grind. If you don't care for his cartridges, don't open his threads and definitely DON'T POST IN THEM. Don't go away mad, just go away.

You are so full of sh*#.

I've been in these battles before. You are the one that will go away mad.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

So what's your point exactly? You answered all your own questions. Told us your gods gift to business. No one ever makes money selling wildcats and that you think making money is bad. What the heck does that have to do with elr?

My point is to take the wind out of the sails of the guy who has already threatened, alluded to and disparaged others for "copying" his designs with minor changes.

My goal seems to have been achieved. Now everyone sees there is no money in it. So leave the "other guys" alone. If it looks similar to one of your hundreds of QuickDesign models, tough. If you think it's "patent" worth, don't publish it here. You placed it in the public domain.