Wyoming 90-10, it’s starting

[Ol' Red]

I guess my hope of a Wyoming elk hunt has officially ended. I do agree that residents should have first shot at the golden ticket though.
So where do we go now for a chance to hunt elk? Or does it not exist?

90/10 does not affect the elk tags.

 

[Ol' Red]

Sorry, did not mean to repeat what Bota just said. I should have read to the end before posting.

 

[Plinker147]

Well..as far as I know..not quite right....
Sure..the f&g are managers of the wildlife...but most states DO NOT own the animals...if that was the case there would be a lot of lawsuits for fatalities and car accidents due to hitting wildlife....
As far as I know...Arizona is the only one state that actually owns the elk in the state.

Well most states have something that says the wildlife is owned by the people of the state and held in Trust by the state. Meaning management by states game and fish agency for the benefit of the states people. That's how it is in NM and I think most western states are similar.

There was also a federal ruling that says states own and can manage their wildlife as they see fit. That means they can pass any quotas, %, or points systems they want to.

Since tags have got so hard to draw western states are making big pushes to more resident hunting. NM passed a few years ago that only residents can draw cow elk tags and only residents can hunt state owned wildlife areas. It's happening everywhere, there is also a push for 90/10 in NM as we are currently 84/ 10 outfitter, 6 non res. But we have lots of LO tags that dont go towards the quotas but you got to pay a lot to play with those.

 

[26Reload]

Plinker....I think you've hit most all the 'points' very well.....

 

[adam32+P]

How does 90/10 improve game management? Or even have any effect on it? It's just trading a non-res for a res doing the killing, doesn't "save" any animals.

 

[WapitiBob]

The job of the task force is to improve resident opportunity thru tag allocations, access, and any other issues they might identify.

 

[doug2080]

I dont believe it was designed for game management. With the influx of NR moving to our western states many of which are hunters I believe it's more about evening the odds back out. As more people move in the odds for us go down and so should it for NR as well.

 

[CMP70306]

And a resident shouldn't have to worry about never getting a tag while they are young enough to hunt. However, this is really going to suck for us nonresidents who respect and look forward to hunting in Wyoming. We are guests there and I get it and the way I conduct myself while there reflects it. If I put myself in the residents shoes and think about not be able to deer hunt in MN while nonresidents are, I'd be pretty upset.

As a PA hunter our hunting conditions are a lot different than out west, for one until recently we had almost twice as many hunters as wyoming had residents, the numbers are currently sitting around just under 900,000. Our buck tags are given with your hunting license and our doe tags are on a first come basis based on the Wildlife Management Unit, some you can only get one in while others you can get 6 or more. Bears are an over the counter tag and the only draw hunt in the state is for elk where 50,000+ hunters apply for a last year record high of 164 bull and cow tags. The only difference between residents and non residents is that the non resident license costs about $100 more and doe tags are $26.90 instead of $6.90.

I will admit these rules make me far less likely to spend my money to try drawing in any western state as it sounds like they intend for us to pay higher fees and fund their agency with very little chance of actually getting an opportunity to hunt. At that point if I'm already going to be paying hundreds of dollars a year for well over a decade to apply to multiple places to hunt something then I'd rather save my money and spend it outright for a guided hunt with landowner tags.

I'll use bison as an example as that is the only one I have experience with, in Wyoming based on last years quota of 25 bull tags and 413 nonresident applicants I have 6% chance to draw a tag that costs me $4,400 plus an additional $5,000+ in fees to hire a guide with no guarantee of even seeing one. Alternatively my bison hunt in Nebraska cost me $8,000 which included the guide, lodging, meals and I was guaranteed to get one hunting with my Sharps. By the time I finished my research I realized trying to do a draw hunt was not worth the effort to apply as the sole benefit of shooting a B&C legal Bison wasn't really much of a concern compared to a freezer full of meat, a trophy to put on my wall and a hide to put on the bed.

 

[LTH181818]

I dont believe it was designed for game management. With the influx of NR moving to our western states many of which are hunters I believe it's more about evening the odds back out. As more people move in the odds for us go down and so should it for NR as well.

Correct, plus tens of thousands of people putting in for a dozen states. These people put in for the low percentage areas, making it very difficult for residents ever getting premium tags.
Correct, hunters with more resources will get much more opportunity. This always has been the case. No matter where you live, trophy animals are increasingly in higher demand, which means less opportunities for residents.
What surprises is that states like ID, Wyo and Montana seem clueless of this demand and still manage like it was 50 years ago.

 

[doug2080]

Correct, plus tens of thousands of people putting in for a dozen states. These people put in for the low percentage areas, making it very difficult for residents ever getting premium tags.
Correct, hunters with more resources will get much more opportunity. This always has been the case. No matter where you live, trophy animals are increasingly in higher demand, which means less opportunities for residents.
What surprises is that states like ID, Wyo and Montana seem clueless of this demand and still manage like it was 50 years ago.

Agreed. They're far more concerned about the the money then they are the quality of the animals they are paid to manage. Gets worse every year. Here in Montana we still have a few places that produce good elk, but our mule deer are all but done trophy wise. If I was a NR Montana would be the last place on my list to try for trophy deer. Especially for what we charge for them to come here. Pretty embarrassing really.

 

[LTH181818]

Agreed. They're far more concerned about the the money then they are the quality of the animals they are paid to manage. Gets worse every year. Here in Montana we still have a few places that produce good elk, but our mule deer are all but done trophy wise. If I was a NR Montana would be the last place on my list to try for trophy deer. Especially for what we charge for them to come here. Pretty embarrassing really.

Look at deer that used to come out of the Missouri Breaks or Broadus. ( Genetics )
They don't seem to understand there is more money a more aged population. All of us would like some chance @ ( Governor tags ) hunts.

 

[LTH181818]

Agreed. They're far more concerned about the the money then they are the quality of the animals they are paid to manage. Gets worse every year. Here in Montana we still have a few places that produce good elk, but our mule deer are all but done trophy wise. If I was a NR Montana would be the last place on my list to try for trophy deer. Especially for what we charge for them to come here. Pretty embarrassing really.

By the way huge deer..

 

[WildRose]

That might work for the first generation, but when they turn 17 and can't hunt anymore are they going to lose interest or pass that opportunity down to their children?

Also, if the tags are allocated mostly to outfitters it will be extremely cost prohibitive to even take your children on a hunt. Paying outrageous guide prices, tag fees, tipping the guides, paying the outfitter guest fees for your own meals and lodging (not to mention those for any other family members you want to take), plus basically allowing another person to run the show and be the one ultimately teaching your child to hunt. Add to that losing the satisfaction of accomplishing something on your own.

Then what about taking children along that are too young to hunt to get them involved at a young age? I'd love to take my entire family along on a hunt and let the littles explore near the camp while I pursue game, but that's a pretty expensive proposition through an outfitter.

Ultimately I understand that the state gets to decide its tag allocation to NR hunters, but the idea of forcing NR hunters to acquire their tags through an outfitter is basically just ensuring that only the rich will be hunting.

In regard to those saying to move to Wyoming if you don't like it, there are not enough jobs or resources to support all the people that would like to hunt in Wyoming. Outfitters and real estate tycoons have already been buying up as much land as possible in the state and the prices out there compared to what I saw 10 years ago are astronomical.

Unfortunately it seems that hunting is no longer about tradition or self reliance and is just another commercialized source of revenue, and it's happening in every state, not just Wyoming. People with the "Eff you, go somewhere else" attitude certainly aren't helping keep the tradition alive for ANY future generations, and I certainly don't want to teach my children to behave like that.

There are other critters and other places to hunt them besides what Wy has to offer.

Every DNR/F&G in the country needs to be doing everything they can to get more youth into the sport even if it is at the expense of some tags for adults.

A mentoring program that would guarantee a tag for anyone mentoring a kids that draws might be another solution.

Unfortunately the population growth in Wy along with the push/pull of state residents over out of state hunters isn't likely to get any better, and probably continue to become more problematic over time.

It's irritating but think of it from the perspective of the state residents knowing only X number of tags are going to be issued each season and seeing them going to out of state hunters vs the people who live and work in the state who keep the whole thing running year round.

Whether we like it or not they are going to be the priority and that's as it should be.

 

[brant89]

There are other critters and other places to hunt them besides what Wy has to offer.

Every DNR/F&G in the country needs to be doing everything they can to get more youth into the sport even if it is at the expense of some tags for adults.

A mentoring program that would guarantee a tag for anyone mentoring a kids that draws might be another solution.

Unfortunately the population growth in Wy along with the push/pull of state residents over out of state hunters isn't likely to get any better, and probably continue to become more problematic over time.

It's irritating but think of it from the perspective of the state residents knowing only X number of tags are going to be issued each season and seeing them going to out of state hunters vs the people who live and work in the state who keep the whole thing running year round.

Whether we like it or not they are going to be the priority and that's as it should be.

Like I said, the reduction of NR tags isn't the main thing I have issue with (even though it is disappointing for us NR hunters). It's the proposed outfitter tags that I see as the bigger problem. It will effectively quadruple the price to hunt there and a decent elk unit will probably cost 12x as much as a DIY hunt. That's pretty much just pricing the average hunter right out of the state. I understand there are other places to hunt, but the attraction of Wyoming in my opinion is that it has been pretty much the most NR friendly state to hunt in. I can see how that would irritate residents, and understand changing the tag allocation, but the outfitter thing is just a money grab. It's an attempt to replace the tag and point sales that they would be losing with outfitter fees to try to keep a similar cash flow into the state. If they want to decrease NR tags then they should be ready to accept that they are going to see reduced cash flows from out of state rather than simply excluding an entire group of people based on economic status.