SOLD/EXPIRED WTB a Fireformed .338 Allen Express dummy...

[Fiftydriver]

RR,

Whats left, that would be archery gear!!!

Ever notice how it seems archery is being pushed harder and harder these days. It saddens me when archery hunters hammer rifle hunters because its "Just to easy!!"

We are all the same, HUNTERS, we have to stand together now more then ever. If we do not, in our lifetime, we WILL see the end of hunting. I may be an extremist but it may happen in the next 8 years if we do not stand tall and make a hell of alot of noise RIGHT NOW.

Here in Montana, the locals have a theory about a backhanded way the government is trying to get rid of rifles. Follow me through this one. I am not a 100% believer but knowing how cunning these people are, it could easily be a fact.

The main supporters of the 2nd amendment are sportsmen and hunters as far as financing the fight. Not from mil type, tactical type or sport type shooters. All are supports but they do not produce nearly the capitol that big game hunters do.

Several years ago, what happened here in the west, mainly Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. The game populations started to increase, dramatically in some area. This is very bad for the anti-hunting, anti-gun crowd. Lots of game means many more successful hunters. Successful hunters mean more lifetime hunters.

Soon after that, someone decides we need wolved in Yellowstone again, why????? God knows. The claim was that the wolves would control the bison population in the park. To bad the wolves they got from Canada had never seen let along hunted a wolf!!!

Jump forward to today. They say that the elk population in the park has dropped from 30 to 40% depending on whos report you look at. Calf predation has increased to 60% in most studies.

There used to be a late season elk hunt in Gardner MT where thousands of elk were taken every year. It was world renown for huge bull elk. Not its nearly a thing of the past because the number of permits has been limited so dramatically.

We just get a report that the number of wolves has dropped in the park for the first time in 3 years. No news program mentions the fact that this is not because the wolves are dieing off, its because they are leaving, following the game herds that have to leave for a chance to survive.

In places where there used to be constant elk numbers, now they are hardly seen any more. How does this relate to gun control????

Hunters produce the biggest fight against the anti-gunners financially, if there is no game to hunt, there is no need to hunt, if there is no need to hunt, there will be less interest in owning firearms. If the interest in firearms drops, so will the financial backing supporting the 2nd ammendment, if that happens, they will take our rights away from us.

Fortunately, Oboma has done more to increase gun sales over the last several months then any president ever has!!!

Still, we have to make noise now and make alot of it or we will loose our rights sooner then most expect. Start fighting and making noise.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Kirby is right on the money. In the world of anti-hunter vs hunter, the only legal ground we have had to stand on is game management. There is no right to hunt. Heritage has little to no merit in the court system. The wolf will replace us as game management. Pandora's box is now open. W/o the need to hunt for management purposes, then there is no need for the general public to own firearms. The anti-second amendment crowd has always tried to stand on the idea that only organized militia are protected by the second amendment.

You see how this goes down? The only thing we have left is the second amendment, and it's original intent, which is for every citizen of the United States of America to own and maintain firearms.

We all have to work for a living. They work at taking our guns for a living. Here in lies the problem. Hunters all hate each other. We are too easily divided. We have the NRA, but they do nothing to keep the hunters united. To my knowledge there is no organization of hunters. This place is the only place where I have seen hunters check their opinions of how other hunters choose to hunt. Perhaps this is the place to start a united hunters organization.

Steve

 

[Ridge Runner]

well you needn't worry about wolves taking are place in the ecosystem, man saw to that, the demise of the wolf is still there, we see it all the time in the foxes and coyotes, it will rear its head again with the wolves before its over.
you see man didn't hunt the wolf to the brink of extinction, it was the WMD of the canine world, in the 1890's I think it was, man trapped wolves and infected them with sarscoptic mange, once contracted the wolf is dead, just a long lingering death.
RR

 

[vintec]

After watching some stuff on wolves, I think the hunting season should be opened. We all know that there are no natural predetors of wolves. Just learning that wolves begin to feed on thier prey before it is even dead is terrible. Its my understanding that most predetors kill thier prey before they eat it.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

well you needn't worry about wolves taking are place in the ecosystem, man saw to that, the demise of the wolf is still there, we see it all the time in the foxes and coyotes, it will rear its head again with the wolves before its over.
you see man didn't hunt the wolf to the brink of extinction, it was the WMD of the canine world, in the 1890's I think it was, man trapped wolves and infected them with sarscoptic mange, once contracted the wolf is dead, just a long lingering death.
RR

You missed the point. The difference between now and then is that the the Government now wants the wolf. The Government then wanted the wolf out of the way of the rancher and the sportsmen. Make no mistake, they were brought in to take the place of hunting for game population management. It may not have happened where you are, but it has happened here. Kirby's example of the Yellowstone elk is not the only one. The moose are taking it the hardest, then the mule deer. The most productive moose area in the whole state is down to 20% of the normal moose population in about 2yrs.

The only other thing we have going for us is that while the wolf is wiping out the big game they eat some cattle here and there. This puts the rancher in the fight with us. They are better organized than we are. So far they are being kept fairly quiet by paying them for each wolf incident that they loose livestock.

With diminishing numbers of game, there is no choice but to reduce the number of tags that are issued. We sportsmen have always been fine with that. When the game numbers increase then we get more tags. We all know that the wolf is very intelligent, but I guarantee they do not know the number of animals needed in a herd for sustainability. They will kill them until there are not enough to sustain them selves and move on to the next heard. It will take many years for a heard to come back from devastation.

The wolf battle is not over. Although the longer it goes on the less need for hunting there is, and the weaker our traditional stance that justifies the 2nd ammendmant gets.

Steve

 

[mindcrime]

Wow Kirby, that sounds EXACTLY like what is happening here in TN with the Coyotes and Whitetail deer population!!! I shoot any Coyote that I see, even if it *might* perhaps ruin my deer hunt that day. Our government is increasingly getting OVERLY powerful. Whatever happened to BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE?!?




Ya know fellas, it's truly amazing the insight that our Forefathers actually had in light of Government:

"The strongest reason for The People to Retain Their Right to Keep And Bear Arms is as A Last Resort to Protect Themselves Against Tyranny In Government"
---Thomas Jefferson

"They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security."
---Benjamin Franklin

"The consolidation of the States into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it."
---General Robert E Lee

Also remember that the Declaration of Independence specifically notes, that each State is to be Free and Independent of each other and that "united" was NEVER capitalized (in the last paragraph):

"We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."






Lastly a quote from a Presidential Candidate that really KNOWS Government, and I supported financially for his Bid:

"The obligations of our representatives in Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating no win wars, bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people."

---Ron Paul

He also has on his desktop an engraved desk weight saying "Don't Steal, the Government hates Competition."



We've GOT TO band together to show these people that we will NOT TOLERATE an overly intrusive government.

 

[jmden]

RR,

Whats left, that would be archery gear!!!

Ever notice how it seems archery is being pushed harder and harder these days. It saddens me when archery hunters hammer rifle hunters because its "Just to easy!!"

We are all the same, HUNTERS, we have to stand together now more then ever. If we do not, in our lifetime, we WILL see the end of hunting. I may be an extremist but it may happen in the next 8 years if we do not stand tall and make a hell of alot of noise RIGHT NOW.

Here in Montana, the locals have a theory about a backhanded way the government is trying to get rid of rifles. Follow me through this one. I am not a 100% believer but knowing how cunning these people are, it could easily be a fact.

The main supporters of the 2nd amendment are sportsmen and hunters as far as financing the fight. Not from mil type, tactical type or sport type shooters. All are supports but they do not produce nearly the capitol that big game hunters do.

Several years ago, what happened here in the west, mainly Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. The game populations started to increase, dramatically in some area. This is very bad for the anti-hunting, anti-gun crowd. Lots of game means many more successful hunters. Successful hunters mean more lifetime hunters.

Soon after that, someone decides we need wolved in Yellowstone again, why????? God knows. The claim was that the wolves would control the bison population in the park. To bad the wolves they got from Canada had never seen let along hunted a wolf!!!

Jump forward to today. They say that the elk population in the park has dropped from 30 to 40% depending on whos report you look at. Calf predation has increased to 60% in most studies.

There used to be a late season elk hunt in Gardner MT where thousands of elk were taken every year. It was world renown for huge bull elk. Not its nearly a thing of the past because the number of permits has been limited so dramatically.

We just get a report that the number of wolves has dropped in the park for the first time in 3 years. No news program mentions the fact that this is not because the wolves are dieing off, its because they are leaving, following the game herds that have to leave for a chance to survive.

In places where there used to be constant elk numbers, now they are hardly seen any more. How does this relate to gun control????

Hunters produce the biggest fight against the anti-gunners financially, if there is no game to hunt, there is no need to hunt, if there is no need to hunt, there will be less interest in owning firearms. If the interest in firearms drops, so will the financial backing supporting the 2nd ammendment, if that happens, they will take our rights away from us.

Fortunately, Oboma has done more to increase gun sales over the last several months then any president ever has!!!

Still, we have to make noise now and make alot of it or we will loose our rights sooner then most expect. Start fighting and making noise.

I have little doubt that the anti gunners are using every means they can possibly think of to achieve their aims. Wolves, 'ammunition accountability', banning lead from use--there's a senate bill being heard today in WA on this one. I wrote my state legislators...again. They are pecking away from any possible angle constantly. Is it up to us to decide if we will be like the frog in the story that sits in the pot, being heated up so slowly that he 'gets used to' the increased heat, until he's boiled, or, will we do something about this. Make your voice heard.

I'm on the opposite side of the Libs on most 'moral' issues as well and as I track those issues, I see the same tactics as are being used--slow, steady (sometimes not so slow) erosion of time honored, judeo-christian values.

This is ultimately a fight for our right to self-defense--slowing and/or stopping hunting is just one milestone on that road.

Freedom has always had to be fought for...

 

[WildcatB]

Obamas first attach on firearms will come in the assult weapon ban renewal, remember the one that ol willy dimposed on us. This time however, I suspect they will make it permanent!!! This will get rid of all the assult rifles, AR-15, all the foreign rifles, AK, SKS, all of them. This will also set us back to the standard 10 round max magazine limit for handguns.

After this, I suspect they will attach the semi-auto firearms. Starting out with the handguns, because there is just no need to have 9mm with a 19 round capacity..... Unfortunately, if they get it passed, it will whip out all semi-autos, shotguns, 22 LR, semi auto hunting rifles such as the Browning BAR.

About this same time, there will be an attach on the big, scary 50 BMG. This may actually come before the semi-auto ban from what I am hearing. Why, because they are scary and most feel there is no real sporting need for them.

I suspect that they will have an extremely hard time banning bolt action rifles. They may go after magazine limits or require fixed mag boxes but to ban bolt action rifles will be nearly impossible for them to do as long as we have a strong hunting group of the population.

I believe most long range hunting rifles will be safe for now but we will get hammered on other fronts. If you think its OK to let the 50 BMGs get banned without helping the fight to save them, even if you do not have one, be aware that this is only the start. Do not get in the fight when its already half way into the war, get involved NOW!!!

You're right Kirby:

From the National Shooting Sports Foundation's website:

FOUR ANTI-GUN BILLS INTRODUCED IN NY STATE

The New York State Assembly has introduced four new gun-control measures. The bills include mandating bullet serialization, a ban on the sale, possession and use of .50-caliber firearms, an expansion of the NY ballistic imaging database, and prohibiting gun shows on public property.

Assembly Bill 3200: Legislation that would mandate bullet serialization -- the process by which each individual round of ammunition is identified and marked with a laser-engraved serial number.
NSSF has made clear that serializing ammunition on a mass-production basis is not feasible from a practical standpoint and any legislation mandating such action could rightfully be considered a de facto ban on ammunition. For more information please read the NSSF Bullet Serialization fact sheet.

Assembly Bill 3211: Legislation that would ban the sale, use or possession of 50-caliber firearms.
Every day law-abiding New York residents use and purchase .50 caliber sporting rifles for long-range target shooting and collecting. Banning these firearms will only hurt shooting enthusiasts, collectors and independent firearms retailers while doing nothing to curb crime or protect residents. These firearms are too big to easily carry and cost thousands of dollars to purchase -- putting them off limits to criminals.

Assembly Bill 2882 / S. 627: Legislation to expand the applications for the New York ballistic imaging database.
The failure of the New York ballistic imaging database system to solve any crime in its nearly eight years of existence has been well documented. In 2001, California wisely rejected setting up its own ballistics imaging system because research, including by the California Department of Justice, proved that a database of lawfully purchased firearms (that are rarely ever used in crimes) would not be an effective law enforcement tool. Another study, released in 2008 by the National Research Council, confirmed the findings and advised against setting up a national ballistics imaging system. New York is one of two states that has wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on a ballistics database. Requiring that all guns that come into contact with law enforcement be tested and submitted into the failed system would only waste more resources on this expensive, useless and unnecessary program.

Assembly Bill 2884: Legislation that would prohibited the sale of guns at a gun show located on public property.
According to a November 2001 Study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, less than one percent (0.7) of criminals acquire their guns from gun shows. Restricting gun shows in the name of fighting crime is a solution in search of a problem.

NSSF is urging all sportsmen, gun-owners and firearms enthusiasts to contact their Assembly member and urge them to oppose and speak out against these dangerous anti-gun bills.

NSSF will provide further updates as these bills are posted on committee schedules.​

Paul