Wildcats vs Traditional Cartridges

[just_jon]

I like to tinker and find loading wildcats to be another way to enjoy the reloading hobby. Bought my first wildcat (250 Savage AI) to even a score with my hunting/shooting partner. We had been discussing calibers for our next T/C Encore pistols. I was seriously considering the 257 Roberts, but he beat me to the punch. Wanting to be different and find a quarter bore that would outperform his 257 Roberts led me to P. O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders and the 250 AI. After waiting two months for the barrel from a Fox Ridge, I sprung the trap on at our monthly range outing. While I "won" the day, he quickly evened the score when his Roberts drew first blood. I've since added 22-250AI, 6mm Rem AI, 280AI, and 35 Whelen AI rifle barrels to the collection. In each case, I fire formed using the parent brass without issue and had no issues working up loads even before the www. All this social distancing has me itching for a new project. Currently debating between 6.5-06AI or 338-06AI. Try one. You'll like it.

 

[25WSM]

Think I will just pass on all the fuss and just use the 30-06 forever.
Shep

 

[25WSM]

Nah just kidding.
Shep

 

[GLTaylor]

Well stated JE Custom and others.
Thank God for wildcatters. Once in a while they hit a real home run. I also used to form 6ppc from .220 Russian cases in the 70's. Today the 6PPC holds virtually every short range BR record. Remington made their 6BR to try to compete. It can't keep up with the ppc, but has found it's home in some variation at the 600 and 1000 yd line. I think somebody mentioned the host of cartridges we have today that started out as somebody's "what if i" cartridge.
They're Fun to tinker with!

 

[Edd]

Not to bash, but why go through the trouble?

It's fun, I do some things for no reason other than having fun.

 

[sturner]

Why not

 

[freddiej]

I did, not before 2001, think that wildcats were good. nothing told me or showed me that wildcats could fill a niche with me. nothing but factory adopted loads would due for me. well that all stopped in 2001. I was a Freshman gunsmithing student, a Montana hunting guide, and I was wholly irate at the cult behind the 7mm R/M. I was so hot under the collar at these people I built a cartridge and rifle just to give them the largest middle finger possible. At the ranch all I saw was Rem 700's Rem 700 clones chambered in 7MM-R/M. when I asked why the 700/7MM-R/M combo they all stated the same thing, "It's the only cartridge that can kill an Elk effectively." By mid season I was disgusted with the Rem 700 and the 7MM-R/M. So, I went totally wild with doing everything opposite from these entranced cult members. I had built a Win 70 action built with a 7MM-R/M necked down to 277, fluted barrel, oiled wood stock, S&B 4-16 X 50MM scope. In doing so I wildcatted my self into filling a niche that I think was only filled by the 270 Weatherby (a cartridge that I thought was a complete waste of powder and time) well my wildcat was a 7MM R/M necked down 0.007" to 0.277". I could use the same powders and pretty much be equal or better than the 7 R/M. the gun hung on the wall of the lodge for that first season.. after that it was in my hands each and every hunt I guided. Moose and Brown Bear warrented a wee bit bigger caliber 0.338" and 0.458". I learned something that year.. never allow my own way of thinking to box me in to seeing things through only my own eyes. that is why I may dislike certain calibers, and cartridges.. but I know other cartridges/wildcats are filling someone's need, form factor, and purpose. It may not be mine but it is theirs. I still may speak out against the things I do not like but I do understand those people that must have the newest, hottest, and newest form factor drive and make innovations to this industry. I have been looking at the 300 PRC and I do not like it much, BUT I like certain things about it.. the case for one. and I was thinking how great it would be if it was extended in the neck and necked down to a 0.227".. then the 27 Nosler came out.. now I am so happy. I am going to build a 27 Nosler or take a 28 Nosler and neck it down, use a 1:8" or 1:7" twist barrel and make another really nice 270 long range gun. hate mail I know I will get aside.. I still would rather have a 277 than a 284. I would rather have a 257 than a 264. a 321 rather than a 8MM. Personal preference. if you all like other things.. be my guest make what you want, innovate, bring this industry glory and fame. make sure that I have plenty of cases to alter to make things you will absolutely either hate or have a "DUH!" moment.
To the 7mm R/M guys out there.. could you do me a huge favor.. if there is what you think is a 7MM-R/M Winchester Mod-70 W/fluted barrel that will not chamber a factory cartridge.. could you see if the barrel (left side near the receiver) says, "277-7MM R/M" or "270 H-Mag". I am sure it has been frustrating the Cult for 15 years now. if you could let me know when it is found.. I would like it back. thank you all.

 

[35 Whelen]

I like to tinker and find loading wildcats to be another way to enjoy the reloading hobby. Bought my first wildcat (250 Savage AI) to even a score with my hunting/shooting partner. We had been discussing calibers for our next T/C Encore pistols. I was seriously considering the 257 Roberts, but he beat me to the punch. Wanting to be different and find a quarter bore that would outperform his 257 Roberts led me to P. O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders and the 250 AI. After waiting two months for the barrel from a Fox Ridge, I sprung the trap on at our monthly range outing. While I "won" the day, he quickly evened the score when his Roberts drew first blood. I've since added 22-250AI, 6mm Rem AI, 280AI, and 35 Whelen AI rifle barrels to the collection. In each case, I fire formed using the parent brass without issue and had no issues working up loads even before the www. All this social distancing has me itching for a new project. Currently debating between 6.5-06AI or 338-06AI. Try one. You'll like it.

How well does your 35 Whelen AI perform for you. I have thought about have one done. I have thought about doing a 270 Win. AI with a 1-8 or 1-7 twist too.

 

[HARPERC]

......I do not like but I do understand those people that must have the newest, hottest, and newest form factor drive and make innovations to this industry.....

Some folks are still watching I love Lucy, and Gilligan's Island and are happy-some need more stimulation

I met a fellow that was using of all things a left handed, Weatherby Mark V in .30-06 as his only rifle. Same scope too, but I don't remember which. Over the decades he'd been every where, and shot about everything. He definitely knew how to stay stimulated. More of us have brown bear rifles than will ever have a brown bear tags, we all have our quirks, and it's all good.

 

[RH300UM]

Some folks are still watching I love Lucy, and Gilligan's Island and are happy-some need more stimulation

I met a fellow that was using of all things a left handed, Weatherby Mark V in .30-06 as his only rifle. Same scope too, but I don't remember which. Over the decades he'd been every where, and shot about everything. He definitely knew how to stay stimulated. More of us have brown bear rifles than will ever have a brown bear tags, we all have our quirks, and it's all good.

Hey I love Gilligans Island!!

 

[HARPERC]

....Hey I love Gilligans Island!!......

...And you're one of the more stimulated among us. I'm sure a Gilligan's Island episode is a welcome change once in awhile.

 

[J E Custom]

Well stated Jerry . I enjoy shooting and reloading . The brass prep is part of what I enjoy the most . I don't want to play with wildcats but am sure glad that there are people that do otherwise we would still be chucking rocks and sticks . The wildcats have a gap that they fill . I for one am glad to live in the best country in the world with all it's faults we still have the freedom to own firearms and to build wildcats . In the service I went to countries where that wasn't the case

Thank you for your service !!

J E CUSTOM

 

[Mram10us]

Wildcat development expands your knowledge of brass and chambers. The math isn't bad and it allows you to fix issues with cartridges, you would otherwise abandon. Why not use a single reamer for multiple uses?

 

[Wild Monkey]

We all win with more options. Improvements over standbys, improvements on the wildcat, all good. Sometimes the hype and claims get to be a little much, but that is the shooting world, it is not changing. Pick what you want, make it work.
Remington abandoned their Saum case, why, no clue. Bigger now than when they marketed it. I am glad I can sort through all the parameters to make a build work w/o worrying about restrictions.

The Saum case is a definite mystery, I've never found a factory Rifle on the shelf chambered in 7-SAUM. If I had I would have impulsed one long ago. I'd love a 6.5 Swede to AI, but I'll never buy one without the modern twist. I think there is a niche for a retail dealer to carry many of these harder to find Chamberings and offer the more modern twists without having to do a custom build.

Me, I found interest in Wildcats to serve a personal requirement. I came up with a few for AR's, like the 22 & 24-Sport from "350-Legend" or 6 & 6.5mm "35-Remington". The lure and fantasy of developing a better Military Cartridge had me really enthusiastic, -All the more reason to serve my Muskets. What's funny is those were all already done at least one Generation ago and went extinct years ago. After that I somehow went overboard playing with all sorts of brass as I've ordered all kinds of obscure styles just to play with. Like the time I took the .338 Lapua Brass and formed it into a shorter 30 Caliber version using a cut down 30-378 Die. Only to discover the old antiquated versions of previously Wildcatted .378 Brass. Then I noticed a high percentage of repetitiveness among different Calibers and Brass styles. It seems many if not most Wildcats that exist today can be accomplished by simply using existing Cartridges. (many of which are fighting for survival)

There will always remain questions like why didn't the Dakotas have 40 Degree shoulders and the standard .535" Rim? or why didn't the 7-WSM have a longer neck or how come they never introduced the 6.5-SAUM? Wildcatters answer those questions with custom builds & chambers. One thing is for certain there are some big players on this site when it comes to Wildcats and Custom builds. I think I'm just about to get lost in the .244-.257 world of beginner amateur target shooting and I'm certain I'll discover the many reasons for even more Wildcats.