Why would you not sight in at 100 yards?

[memtb]

This is just an attempt to "qualify" my position for our 300 yard zero. Prior to our having our Leupold with the CDS system, we had an opportunity for my wife to collect the "black color phase" black bear, she has wanted for years. With our rangefinder, I showed the rather small black bear to be 378 yards. As she got locked-in on her shooting sticks, I said, "378, hold high on the shoulder"! Moments later, a 225 grain TTSX was on it's way. The bear never made a step. Had I had to say hold 19 (or whatever) inches high....the shot would have been much more difficult.

Obviously, with the CDS, it would have been very easy to "dial in" to 375 or 380 yards......unless I wasn't given time to range the animal! memtb

 

[greenejc]

Me too.

I do a little bit the same, except I use the Shepherd P series or V series scopes for most of my rifles. I can zero my 30-06s or my 300 winmags for 100 yards and use the bullet drop circles in the front focal plane to range my target on the fly and because the bullet drop is calculated into the ranging points, when the range is determined, the bullet hits inside the ranging point, within one minute of angle or less. Practical ranging with this system in the 3x10 scopes is about 600 yards. Beyond that, I need a range finder, because bullet drop is too great between 100 yard aim points and even at 10 power, some precision is lost. The 6X18 V series can be used farther. Precise aiming can be done using the 1 inch at 100 yards vertical ladder on the side bar of the scope and a good range finder, allowing precise shots to be taken far beyond the effective killing ability of most projectiles in either of these rifles. I do play with both the 30-06 and the 300 winmag at long ranges with these scopes, along with my real elk rifle, the 35 Whelen. They will allow consistent hits at 800 to over 1,000 yards at the altitudes where I hunt elk. I don't think I'd try to kill an elk with any of them past about 600 yards, though. Even a perfect hit in the vitals at that distance might mean a lot of tracking with elk. I'm old and I don't like to blood trail. An exception might be the .35 Whelen, using Sierra 225gr gamekings at a measured average MV of 2725 fps, because that bullet still retains the muzzle velocity of a 158 grain .357 magnum and noticeably more energy at 800 yards, the sheer mass to get penetration, and a thin 0.025 jacket, making it more likely to open up some at distances beyond 600 yards.
If you want to read a comprehensive study on bullet size, weight, caliber and effectiveness on big game (deer, wild boar, elk and up to bovine game) there's a lot to learn by going to www.ballisticstudies.com and reviewing their extensive knowledge base compiled from actual hunts and the actual field effectiveness of the various projectiles in various calibers ranging from .223 up to .458 caliber, with pictures of wound cavities and recovered projectiles at various ranges. It is interesting and enlightening reading.

 

[Aaron Lawrence]

Something that has always perplexed me is why guys will sight in their rifles at 150, 200, 300, etc yards. Why would you not just sight in for 100 yards and learn your drops/elevation adjustments for anything beyond that? In my head, if I sight in for 300 yards I need to remember hold-overs for anything past 300 and hold-unders for anything inside 300 which is seems overly complicated. I'm a sight in at 100 yard guy but I want to understand why you would sight in at a different distance as I feel like I am missing something here.

I thoroughly enjoyed your post! There aren't many of us around! Myself, after lining everything up with the old-timer method of string on the wall, I then sight in whatever rifle for 25 yards. Yup! I said 25 yards! I've found that sighting to 25 yards is good for most calibers to be almost or dead on at 100 yards. If it's a little bit off though, it's much easier and less ammo consuming to do 25 yards then fine tune for 100 yards. Not only that, but it's much more fun to hit that accurately when you start going farther out. Another thing I'm kinda stuck on is researching to find what bullet, load, primer, and even brass that the gun was initially designed around. To me it seems that I'll get that farther out quicker by knowing what the original bullet was used for design of the caliber, because let's face it, that caliber wasn't designed for a rifle first. Often, a bunch of different rifles were used for the cartridge testing even if one was eventually the pick of the litter for fine tuning the caliber. I also pay a lot of attention to what the designers thought which rifle was aces for the particular cartridge. That may just be the rifle I want to get for myself!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I read about this style of zeroing a rifle in one of my long range shooting books (Long-Range Precision Rifle by Anthony Cirincione II). They called it the "hunting zero" and in the book they used a built-in feature of Remington's old ballistic software, which that is no longer available, to calculate this. How do you calculate the range in which to zero your rifle so that it's within X amount of inches? I think not knowing how to calculate this zero is half the reason I have never considered setting my rifle at anything but a 100 yard/meter zero.

This thread really blew up, so someone may have already said this.

Seems like there is a bit of confusion with zero range and sight in range and carrying the rifle with the scope set at MPBR. Whatever range a person prefers to validate the load and set the turrets to the zero mark when the bullet impact is dead center the bullseye. Whether that be 100, 200, our 300 etc. This is the zero. Then using a ballistics calculator that will calculate the MPBR zero, you then dial up the elevation turret to that point. Technically you are now walking around with your rifle dialed up from the actual zero. So if your MPBR zero is 325y you then dial your scope up whatever that value is, 2.25 moa we'll say just for example. Now we know based on our ballistics that set for MPBR zero we are good to, well say 420y, and hold dead center and still land inside the pre determined 5" radius. Now if the shot comes about that is 642y we then go to our ballistics and determine that we need a total dial up from the actual zero of, we'll say 5.75 moa. We have already dialed up to 2.25 moa and that is what is showing on the elevation turret, we now just continue to dial up to 5.75 moa for the 642y shot. When done you dial back down to 2.25 moa and you ate back to MPBR zero. You can always dial back to the physical zero and nothing changes with your ballistics program.

 

[FIGJAM]

I found that the difference between 100 and 200 yard zeros is immaterial for big game and coyote hunting. The only rifle I have zeroed at 100 yards is my 223 that I use to shoot prairie dogs and rock chucks. It is kind of like having a 10 yard pin on a bow...it is unnecessary for hunting, sure it may shoot a little high at 10 yards using a 20 yard pin, but it isn't a material difference. Same with a rifle. If you zero at 200.

I zero my big game rifles at 200, and like RockyMntMT said, I dial so it is set at MPBR zero while I am out hiking around. It works well.

 

[5gauss]

My cousin and I practice shooting from our deer stands at different distances. We put a target at 300yds, 400, 500, and 600yds. We take turns shooting one shot at each target as fast as we can. Works good for our hunting conditions. I prefer mil-dots for holdover he uses a leupold Boone & Crocket holdover reticle.

Great idea....you will become proficient at what you do...practice practice....no substitiute...

 

[Danehunter]

What JE Custom said - with the caveats I describe below.

Sight in distance depends upon your cartridge and your hunting region.

A 30-30 would definitely be sighted in for 100 yards given its arcing trajectory and lower power.

A 6.5 CM would be sighted in for either 100, 200 or 300 yards given the intended use and region. For Pennsylvania deer hunting 100 yards is fine. For Wyoming antelope 300 yards is good. For most western hunting 200 yards ia the norm.

Eric B.

 

[Chopaka81]

Something that has always perplexed me is why guys will sight in their rifles at 150, 200, 300, etc yards. Why would you not just sight in for 100 yards and learn your drops/elevation adjustments for anything beyond that? In my head, if I sight in for 300 yards I need to remember hold-overs for anything past 300 and hold-unders for anything inside 300 which is seems overly complicated. I'm a sight in at 100 yard guy but I want to understand why you would sight in at a different distance as I feel like I am missing something here.

I have always sited in 3 inches high at 100 yds. I find it easy to hold on the lower quarter of a broadside shot out to 250 yds, then mid to upper quarter for 300 yds, top of the back 400 yds, and 1 body width over the back for deer for 500 yds.
Beyond 500 I use a laser rangefinder exbal and adjust for elevation and windage.

 

[BigJohnH]

As with most questions it is a matter of personal preference. With my mil-dot scope and knowing how to use it zeroing at 100 just works.

 

[ktgoodman]

200 yard zero for me. If the animal or target is closer than that, I just back away from the animal until I'm 200 yards away - "right".

I have a laminated printed drop / dope chart in my shell holder on the gun stock for quick adjustments. I also have my gun shooting left 2 inches at 200 yards as to negate most spin drift out to 700 yards. At 500 yards the bullet spins back to center and is still just 2 inches right at 700. Now I just need to dial elevation and wind and I'm right in there. If shooting 900 or 1,000 yards, I start to put a bit more for spin drift, but it is still pretty small. Great question and some super good insight from posters.

 

[greenejc]

Best I remember Carlos Hathcock, famous sniper in Vietnam if someone didn't know, used a 700yd zero for his Winchester 70 in 30-06. Guess anything under 700yds just aim at their privates. No mil-dots back then. Just a talented country boy from Arkansas.
,

Yes he did. If I could find it, I used to have the older Sniper Training and Employment manual for the US Army, which showed the aimpoints for the M21 with open sights when set at 500 meters. A shot at 100 yards had the aim point at about the crotch, 200 was the knees, and 250 or so was at about the crotch again. You aimed higher on the body for everything out to 500 meters. He also used the M21 system a few times, and his spotter carried an M21. I should also mention that GSgt Hathcock was a member of the Marine rifle team, and a highly experienced long range shooter, who had won the Wimbleton Cup at Camp Perry before he was first deployed to Vietnam. He did that with the 300 winchester Magnum target rifle with scope. He used the 30-06 because it would range to over 1,000 yards at sealevel with the 173 grain sierra bullet, and it didn't have the recoil of the .300. Lake City match was easily available for him, and more than adequately accurate at distances out to around 1200 yards. I don't know if any of his ammunition was hand loaded while he was in Vietnam, but I know that was the practice for competition shooting in both the Army and Marine Corps rifle teams. Lots of times, there are dedicated armorers who hand build the rifles for both the Army rifle teams and the Marine rifle teams specifically for the Wimbleton Cup matches. They also accurized the M14 for the open sight matches at Camp Perry, which go from 100 to 600 yards, which is where the M14 National Match rifle comes from, and the M21 grew out of this with the Art I and II leatherwood scopes. I don't know if Carlos or his spotter used the Leatherwood.

 

[greenejc]

I thoroughly enjoyed your post! There aren't many of us around! Myself, after lining everything up with the old-timer method of string on the wall, I then sight in whatever rifle for 25 yards. Yup! I said 25 yards! I've found that sighting to 25 yards is good for most calibers to be almost or dead on at 100 yards. If it's a little bit off though, it's much easier and less ammo consuming to do 25 yards then fine tune for 100 yards. Not only that, but it's much more fun to hit that accurately when you start going farther out. Another thing I'm kinda stuck on is researching to find what bullet, load, primer, and even brass that the gun was initially designed around. To me it seems that I'll get that farther out quicker by knowing what the original bullet was used for design of the caliber, because let's face it, that caliber wasn't designed for a rifle first. Often, a bunch of different rifles were used for the cartridge testing even if one was eventually the pick of the litter for fine tuning the caliber. I also pay a lot of attention to what the designers thought which rifle was aces for the particular cartridge. That may just be the rifle I want to get for myself!

In answer to your question, almost all of the short action rifles being made today were designed around either the .243 Winchester or the .308 Winchester/7.62X51 cartridges. About the only rifles that weren't were the Savage 99 lever Actions, which started life designed for .300 Savage and 250-3000. This doesn't include the Carl Mauser designs, because these actions are very close or identical in length to the 30-06 length action of the M1903/1903-A3, and were designed for a longer 7X57 or 8X57 round, especially the large ring Mauser, which could launch a 200 grain bullet at about 2480fps, and a 178 grain bullet at a nominal 2592 fps, which means the actual length of the round required a slightly longer action to cycle well. When the U.S. Army announced the 7.62X51 Nato cartridge, Winchester began design of the .308 Winchester as the civilian counterpart, and brought out a short action rifle in its flagship model 70 just for it. The minute the round and the rifle hit the market, it was a success, and the .308 Winchester is still the most popular short-action round in the world. All or nearly all the commercial rifle manufacturers' short action rifles after its debut have been designed initially around this cartridge.

 

[BoltActionBob]

Something that has always perplexed me is why guys will sight in their rifles at 150, 200, 300, etc yards. Why would you not just sight in for 100 yards and learn your drops/elevation adjustments for anything beyond that? In my head, if I sight in for 300 yards I need to remember hold-overs for anything past 300 and hold-unders for anything inside 300 which is seems overly complicated. I'm a sight in at 100 yard guy but I want to understand why you would sight in at a different distance as I feel like I am missing something here.

 

[Fred G Cook]

Something that has always perplexed me is why guys will sight in their rifles at 150, 200, 300, etc yards. Why would you not just sight in for 100 yards and learn your drops/elevation adjustments for anything beyond that? In my head, if I sight in for 300 yards I need to remember hold-overs for anything past 300 and hold-unders for anything inside 300 which is seems overly complicated. I'm a sight in at 100 yard guy but I want to understand why you would sight in at a different distance as I feel like I am missing something here.

I guess it depends on what you are doing it for. I agree with the hunting senario, which I do - sight in for what I think a normal shot would be for the area I am hunting. However, I am a long range target shooter 600 - 1000 and I sight those guns in at 100 for your same reasons.