Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

[Richard Owl Mirror]

It's possible for an elk to go a pretty good distance when hit in the chest (heart/lungs). Not so with a good bullet that breaks the front shoulders.

OK, thanks for clearing that up.
As I said, I'm new to hunting & firearms so I don't have any experience to draw upon. Now, if 'breaking bone' is important. Does that mean the caliber used is just as important if shooting for the shoulder ?

As I said in my INTRO, my friends are helping me get started in hunting.
They all hunt Mule, Whitetail, Elk, Moose, Bear, Mountain Goat, Mountain Lion and they have suggested I buy a Savage 116FHSAK in .270 caliber.

Using a .270 cal., would you advise me to take a shoulder shot?
Or is that caliber not useful for what you propose?

BTW, my friend who is a Professional guide has said that Montana is going to open up a hunting season for Grizzly Bears in 2014. Just in case anyone is interested.

 

[Tikkamike]

NO creature on earth can survive what is called a sucking chest wound, so if you make a hole north of the diaphragm in the chest cavity those lungs are going to collapse very rapidly there are no two ways about it, that animal isnt going very far. And if you have a bullet that can make 2 holes (1 in and one out) you now have 2 sucking chest wounds. So if shooting them behind the shoulder is your cup of tea about any bullet will work, but if you are an imperfect human and think there is a possibility you might hit them in the shoulders you better be packing a bullet that will break them both so you can put it down right there...broken shoulders and spines are hard to recover from too. My advice- if you are shooting elk use a bullet that is going to get the job done under any circumstance, not one that requires selective shot angles

 

[Tikkamike]

OK, thanks for clearing that up.
As I said, I'm new to hunting & firearms so I don't have any experience to draw upon. Now, if 'breaking bone' is important. Does that mean the caliber used is just as important if shooting for the shoulder ?

As I said in my INTRO, my friends are helping me get started in hunting.
They all hunt Mule, Whitetail, Elk, Moose, Bear, Mountain Goat, Mountain Lion and they have suggested I buy a Savage 116FHSAK in .270 caliber.

Using a .270 cal., would you advise me to take a shoulder shot?
Or is that caliber not useful for what you propose?

BTW, my friend who is a Professional guide has said that Montana is going to open up a hunting season for Grizzly Bears in 2014. Just in case anyone is interested.

if you are hunting elk id use 30 caliber minimum, i like the 338's

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

NO creature on earth can survive what is called a sucking chest wound, so if you make a hole north of the diaphragm in the chest cavity those lungs are going to collapse very rapidly there are no two ways about it, that animal isn't going very far. And if you have a bullet that can make 2 holes (1 in and one out) you now have 2 sucking chest wounds. So if shooting them behind the shoulder is your cup of tea about any bullet will work, but if you are an imperfect human and think there is a possibility you might hit them in the shoulders you better be packing a bullet that will break them both so you can put it down right there...broken shoulders and spines are hard to recover from too. My advice- if you are shooting elk use a bullet that is going to get the job done under any circumstance, not one that requires selective shot angles

I'm just starting out and probably won't be hunting Elk in the near future, although I may join my friends when they do, if possible. This Savage 116FHSAK .270 will be my first firearm.

 

[Tikkamike]

you really cant have too much gun, the 300's are great for everything you listed and they fly flatter than the 270 will with a decent sized bullet. do some searches on here before you make up your mind. these guys wont lead you astray in caliber selection... but out here in the west the 270 is a little small for a "do all" in my opinion

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

you really cant have too much gun, the 300's are great for everything you listed and they fly flatter than the 270 will with a decent sized bullet. do some searches on here before you make up your mind. these guys wont lead you astray in caliber selection... but out here in the west the 270 is a little small for a "do all" in my opinion

Well, there is one consideration I should make you aware of. I have been Perm. Disabled since 1996. I have Degenerative Bone disease and my friend suggested that particular rifle saying the recoil would be such that it wouldn't be too much for my body to handle yet, the rifle can be used for hunting Deer.
It would be nice if I were also able to hunt other animals with the same rifle but, I'm afraid of having too much gun where the recoil might dislocate my shoulder. Perhaps if I were in good health, the caliber wouldn't make a difference. And to be truthful, I may never be able to hunt larger game like Elk, Moose, etc... due to this limitation.
It would be nice if I were able to join the "BIG GAME" club.
Actually, I can drive about 10 miles and watch a herd of Elk numbering around 100. And that is just one spot out of many around here. I can drive about 3 miles and watch a herd of antelope, about 30 miles to see herds of Mountain goats.
Even had a Mountain Lion right behind my apartment last month, chasing that herd of antelope through town !
So, with all this game around I guess I might just be dreaming of being able to actually hunt them.

 

[Tikkamike]

There are ways around that too. A muzzle brake willake a 300 feel like a 243. But is all about what you are comfortable with.

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

There are ways around that too. A muzzle brake willake a 300 feel like a 243. But is all about what you are comfortable with.

Thanks! As you can tell I am not very knowledgeable about firearms.
Maybe after I practice with this rifle and see how things go, I can upgrade & improve my equipment so I can take part in the bigger game hunts.

Just so I'm clear, you wouldn't recommend shooting any animal larger than a deer with this particular rifle?
What about Antelope or Bighorn Sheep or Mountain Goat ?

Antelope Application Deadline June 1
Bighorn Sheep & Mountain Goat Application Deadline May 1

 

[PowellSixO]

If you aren't comforatable going to a three hundy, maybe compromise by going with a 7mm Rem Mag, or 7mm Rem Ult Mag. Savage makes a great rifle, but might I also mention the Howa 1500 as your first rifle. The Howa rifles are great rifles, at a good price. If you were to pick up a Howa rifle and a good optic, you could have a great starter rifle without breaking the bank. Then if you figure out you like this hunting thing, then go all out. Nice to see someone getting into hunting for the first time. It seems like most are turning anti hunting, anti fishing, and anti outdoors period. It's sad.

 

[Tikkamike]

dont get me wrong the 270 will kill them all deader than dead... just not as well as the 300+ or even the 7mm's I have killed tons of elk with a 7mm, just pick a good heavy well constructed bullet. for years and years the 270 and 30-06 were the main 2 calibers in the elk hunting woods

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Listen to TIKKAMIKE, as everything he's said on this thread is spot on. The .270 will do the job on those other animals with no problem with the proper bullet and placement of said bullet and it will on elk too, but as he mentioned, the bigger calibers are the way to go on elk if you can handle them.

It was also mentioned about Montana having a grizzly bear season in 2014. The grizzly won't even come up for delisting by the Feds under the ESA until 2014 and even if they are delisted it will probably be at least a year or two after that before any state would implement a hunting season on them. It definitely won't be as early as 2014 though, and willl be another huge hassle just like the wolf debacle in Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana.

 

[gerryb]

while I agree that a sucking chest wound will kill anything, the big thing is will it have time to KILL you. Elk, and such not worried but bigger badder things can go a while with chest wound. I have seen a grizzly go close to half a mile and expire but if he decided to come I could not run far enough to get away. Buffalo can go miles, they all don't but only the one that does can kill you. shoot the biggest gun you can shoot well if thats a 270 thats good but put it in the right place.

 

[Tikkamike]

while I agree that a sucking chest wound will kill anything, the big thing is will it have time to KILL you. Elk, and such not worried but bigger badder things can go a while with chest wound. I have seen a grizzly go close to half a mile and expire but if he decided to come I could not run far enough to get away. Buffalo can go miles, they all don't but only the one that does can kill you. shoot the biggest gun you can shoot well if thats a 270 thats good but put it in the right place.

grizzley.... i have no idea other than shoot till its dead then shoot it again. And the reason a buffalo can go so long with a shot in the ribs is there is so much meat , fat, hide and hair its will actually occlude the wound partially thus slowing down the process of lung collapse etc... basically shoot the most effective gun you can and use a good bullet

 

[HARPERC]

I'm just starting out and probably won't be hunting Elk in the near future, although I may join my friends when they do, if possible. This Savage 116FHSAK .270 will be my first firearm.

Whatever you choose, search through the many anatomy lessons bigngreen has posted. If you choose to shoulder shoot or not, you need to first know where it is. A trip to the zoo, or glassing the various animals close to home is helpful. At this time of year the bones are showing pretty good. In the fall at peak of condition not so much.