bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Jacket thickness.
Why Doesn't Berger make a Bonded Bullet??
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Jacket thickness.
Canhunter35
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Exactly, it's Barnes that make the 'varmint grenades' lol
Thankfully they don't make a bonded bullet, Nosler does, buy those
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
They're doing what they do good. They slowly fill "gaps" in their lineup. Like most bullet manufacturers that start small. It's only after they go corporate, and remove shooters from the hierarchy they try to take over the world.
So many bullets to choose from today only a few gaps exist. I'd just as soon Berger continue to stay in their lane.
So many bullets to choose from today only a few gaps exist. I'd just as soon Berger continue to stay in their lane.
Ingwe
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Again I'm not baiting you guys here but just how much thicker are the Hunter Line jackets over the Target Line...a few thousandth of an inch?
I can't see how that would matter with a soft metal like copper.
Again fellas, shoot whatever has worked for you and whatever you are confident with...that's why some many makers are making and selling bullets because we all have different likes, needs, and preferences.
Personally, I wouldn't shoot at an animal bigger than a Deer with a non-bonded bullet.....again that's me.
Ingwe
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Again I'm not baiting you guys here but just how much thicker are the Hunter Line jackets over the Target Line...a few thousandth of an inch?
I can't see how that would matter with a soft metal like copper.
Again fellas, shoot whatever has worked for you and whatever you are confident with...that's why some many makers are making and selling bullets because we all have different likes, needs, and preferences.
Personally, I wouldn't shoot at an animal bigger than a Deer with a non-bonded bullet.....again that's me.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
If I remember it's a few thou but I'd have to try to dig up older info to get the exact specs.
It makes a huge difference especially when that copper thickens at the tip as it swages down. I know you can take a hunting and target and run them up fast enough to exceed the capability of the hunting but it's dang hard to do it to a Target, I never have in fact. You can take a super rough throat rifle that is stressing jackets on a hunting and throw a target bullet in it and it's a good to go.
It makes a huge difference especially when that copper thickens at the tip as it swages down. I know you can take a hunting and target and run them up fast enough to exceed the capability of the hunting but it's dang hard to do it to a Target, I never have in fact. You can take a super rough throat rifle that is stressing jackets on a hunting and throw a target bullet in it and it's a good to go.
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bigngreen
Well-Known Member
A cup and core bullet isn't for everyone, you do have to think it through a little more and be more critical when choosing weights and speeds, when you do I haven't found anything better but many of us do test and critically look at performance and adjust to get the best performance.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I'd add-Having been through times of my bullet of choice being unavailable, anywhere, at any price, being able to supply existing lines is more important to me than expanding to obtain market share of a competitors line.
I thought the target bullets had the thicker jacket to withstand the heat from shooting long strings during competition. That may have changed in the last few years though.
I went the route of shooting bonded bullets. I've shot Interbonds, Accubonds, Sciroccos and Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. I didn't like the performance from any except the Accubonds. Sure, I got two holes but usually ended up having to put anther round (or two) into them or tracking them for awhile. The Accubonds performed pretty well every time I used them. I shoot Berger's in everything now. I haven't needed a second shot yet (knock on wood). Not sure I'd be interested in a bonded Berger.
This is from the Berger site FAQ:
"Can I use my Target bullets for Hunting?
We do not recommend that you use Target bullets for hunting. The wound channel with a Target bullet is narrow compared to the wound channel of a Hunting bullet. The wider wound channel produced by the Hunting bullet is more likely to impact vital organs if the shot placement is not ideal."
and
"What is the difference between your bullet types? (Target/Tactical/Varmint/Hunting)?
Our Target and Tactical bullets are designed with thicker jackets that withstand more stress before bullet degradation occurs. A target or tactical shooter generally fires multiple rounds in a row, causing the barrel to heat up and more stress on bullet. To keep performance high, we give these bullets thicker jackets.
Our Varmint and Hunting bullets have slightly thinner jackets. This means that the bullet will expand more effectively, creating a large wound cavity that devastates the animal using hydrostatic shock. Hunters generally shoot 1-3 bullets at a time, so bullet degradation is not as much of a concern as expansion."
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
For me I never seen a Berger blow up. What I have seen is the bullet turned inside out and the lead just fall out the back side or not even be there. My wife used a 87 grain VLD on her mule deer buck at about 300 yards. No issues about 10 yards and dirt. I've used one out of a 257 weatherby at 400 yards and same result. Bullet was stuck in the off side hide on the shoulder. Both antelope I shot at 200 and 268 were complete pass through (257 also). I used a 220 grain on a mule deer buck at 761 yards and it had hit high in the back rib bone section and ended up somewhere in the chest cavity or guts. I never found the bullet but no exit hole just a lot of blood in the cavity. This was from a 300 RUM. Deer was DRT. I dont think the bullet blew up at that distance but it did not pass through either. But for as I can tell it worked since the deer just flopped over dead. Use what you like and what you put trust in and what you shoot well enough that you have confidence in when you out hunting. That what I think. I also have been realizing as I get older I dont need a 338 Lapua to take and elk. Especially when you have guys taking elk with 260AI and 156 grain bergers. Dont get me wrong the 338 is probably really good elk medicine but so was the 260AI that one of the guys used. Dead is dead.
memtb
Well-Known Member
That was a "tongue in cheek" remark....for you folks that like frangible, very frangible bullets!
We all know that there are no "exploding" hunting bullets. Or at least I think we all know this to be true! I think they would be excellent prairie dog bullets from a .30 cal. I thought about using them for target work, but, found they expanded so violently.....the groups were hard to measure!
memtb
I have personally had difficulty achieving the consistent, (lot to lot/bullet to bullet) "long range" precision from the bonded bullets. I think Hornady knows this.....ALA: A-Tip.....
As to terminal performance on game from 100-1000+ yards, I have had excellent success with the 140gr Berger HVLD's and JLK VLD's, both of similar construction using the J4 jackets. Just my personal experience.
As to terminal performance on game from 100-1000+ yards, I have had excellent success with the 140gr Berger HVLD's and JLK VLD's, both of similar construction using the J4 jackets. Just my personal experience.
Creedmoor shooter
Well-Known Member
I've been a cup and core fan for awhile. As bigngreen said though, you have to be careful what weight bullet you chose and the speed its shot at. Seems to me you run the heaviest projectile you can that gets you to 2800-2950 and you'll be very impressed with the results. I'm an eld-m guy not so much bergers but it's the same principle.
Personally I would love if they did. I use bergers in my long range rifle for their excellent accuracy, but I'm not a fan of frangible bullets. I use them despite that for the ability to put them where I want them at long range and they perform fine at long ranges, but if they made a bonded bullet that was as accurate I would be much happier.
