Why do so many people not like the 338 Lapua?

[57goldtopman]

did some barrel break in and sighting with both the 338 Lapua and the 300 win mag this weekend.
shot the Sellier& Bellot 250gr match for the 338.
attached is a pic of the target. 210 yards.

I am impressed so far. last couple rounds about 1 inch at 210 yards. I will be spending more time in the future to get better accuracy data but so far seems great.

still need to work up a load. will be using Lapua brass, Fed 215 primer, H1000 powder, Berger 300gr.

should be interesting.

the 300 win mag shot even better. I am impressed with these Savage rifles.

 

[57goldtopman]

forgot to add.

the last 2 shots were on the 1" red square, right lower target. all other shots were sighting in the scope.

 

[Bravo 4]

The Sellier & Bellot match ammo is loaded with the 250gr MatchKing at a decent velocity. It should be a good hunting load if it shoots well from your rifle. As with all SMK's, if used for hunting make sure the tips are opened and not clogged. I have a buddy that buys it at the PX on Fort Campbell for a decent price and uses it in his Savage.

 

[RonS]

did some barrel break in and sighting with both the 338 Lapua and the 300 win mag this weekend.
shot the Sellier& Bellot 250gr match for the 338.
attached is a pic of the target. 210 yards.

I am impressed so far. last couple rounds about 1 inch at 210 yards. I will be spending more time in the future to get better accuracy data but so far seems great.

still need to work up a load. will be using Lapua brass, Fed 215 primer, H1000 powder, Berger 300gr.

should be interesting.

the 300 win mag shot even better. I am impressed with these Savage rifles.

The Savages are hard to beat for out of the box accuracy. I've now got three of them and with very little load development I'm getting 1/2 MOA or better in each of them. Not sure about the version of the 338 you have but the 110 BA does prefer the 300 grain bullets. I'm using Lapua brass and H1000 as well.

 

[slsak]

I have always liked the .338 caliber for some reason. partly because of the information out there and partly just because. recoil wise/accuracy wise, if someone made a very accurate recoil controlled affordable rifle in the 338 win mag I would be all over it. I have yet to find one. I think years ago Remington did make a Sendero in that round but I have never found one. the frustrating thing about firearms companies....they might make nice models, but don't seem to make it in enough cartridge variations. I suppose I could get a custom order but then that "affordable" option will likely go out the window.
for me, I really like the Savage FCP series....I did place a call to Savage to see what it would cost to have a model 12 LRP but in 6.5-284. cost would have been $1700. ouch what a cost increase. so, I stick with off the shelf models.

Most Alaskan guides that I have talked to will not take a client with a mu

I've never shot an elk, but having observed the .338 bullets impact large brown bear and moose, I reached the same conclusion. The superior killing affect on really large animals is apparent with the .338s, compared to the 7mm and .308 bullets. Drop down to deer and black bear-sized animals, and the visible affects of the larger caliber bullets on game isn't really apparent, in my experience. In fact, a high velocity, smaller caliber bullet with often drop these mid-sized game animals faster than the larger caliber bullets traveling at slower velocity. Bullet speed with an expanding bullet seems to be the quickest killer of game weighing less than - say - ~400lbs in weight.

Those hunters experienced using .375, .416, and .458 caliber bullets on large Alaskan brown bear (900-1300lb) normally agree. The larger the caliber of the bullet, given equal sectional density, the more effective the kill. The .458 bullets from a .458 Win Mag will often deflate big brown bear at close range with a single solid hit to the chest.

With respect specifically to Long Range Hunting, the .338 is about the largest caliber offering with cartridges/bullets developed and commonly available to provide a good blend of high ballistic efficiency, offering high levels of retained down range velocity, energy, and lethality. All with tolerable recoil on a muzzle brake equipped rifle, or a suppressed rifle.

Most Alaskan guides that I have spoken to refuse clients who use muzzle brakes. noise factor for the guide is just more than they are willing work with, I will consider suppressed, pricy package to consider. Currently using 338-06 AI for larger game, 25-06 ai or the little guys.

 

[338 dude]

I am currently looking for a new rifle. finally settled down to either a Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor or the FCP HS 338 Lapua. I have been going back and forth between these 2 for some time. I tend to research a lot before purchasing anything.

a few years ago I owned a Rem Sendero 300 RUM. I liked it but always felt I should have gotten the 338 RUM version due to better ballistics of 338 bullets.

looking up the 338 Lapua, you would think that most people shooting long range would be all over this round. Especially with the new lighter, muzzle braked rifles coming out.

this is just a thread to start a discussion on the reality of this round....or odd ideas that I have difficulties agreeing with.

1. it's a military sniper round. Reality is, it was developed for military for efficient delivery of the great 338 bullets. no more powerful than a 340 weather by which shoots the same bullets. many of todays most popular cartridges originally were developed for pretty much the same reason......223, 308 win, 30-06, 6.5x55....on and on. no one seems to connect those rounds with the OMG THAT IS A MILITARY ROUND concept.

2. it's WAY overkill. my ideas are as follows. can someone please explain the concept of overkill. my idea of hunting is to cause enough damage to the game to make certain is has little to no suffering. yes I only hunt animals for meat. don't believe in killing just to kill. yes I do not want to "blow up" the game so there is the least amount of waste. however, being in the medical profession, I do understand that there needs to be a certain amount of trauma to lead to a quick death. so, wouldn't the right approach be to try to ensure that the animal drops in it's tracks rather than run and slowly expire in 50 yards? using a larger cartridge like the Lapua does not guarantee that this will occur but will greatly improve the odds.

3. a lot of posts go like this........wow, that 338 Lapua is so expensive to shoot or reload. but int the same post they will say...you should build the rifle on a custom action, custom barrel, custom stock, put on the $2000 Night force scope with the best mounting rings and base. in reality the cost of 338 Lapua ammo is on par with the larger Weatherby rounds. People don't seem to complain that much about the $$ of Weatherby ammo.

4. OMG it recoils too much. from what I understand, most of the rifles in this round have muzzle brakes. more like shooting a 308. so....

5. Rifles are too heavy. Savage has 2 that are around 10 lbs. Rem 700 was also lighter. I am certain there are others. A concept I have a hard time with is trying to build as light a rifle as possible but then complain that the 308 winchester just kicks like a mule in that rifle. Are we expecting too much out of a rifle? similar idea going on right now in the concealed carry revolvers...super light weight but then complain about shooting the 38 special. of course light weight will be uncomfortable.

just seems to be a lot of dislike for this cartridge but when compared to other cartridges I am having a hard time understanding why the dislike. If a person is able to afford that round, cost aside, isn't the Lapua a great all around cartridge? and now Savage is offering a few very nice options for that round. seems to me like this would be a great platform to target shoot, hunt most game at most ranges.

I tend to like actual facts rather than hear-say.....

just trying to vent a little and looking for your thoughts based on real experience.

I have a savage 110 FCP in 338 Lapua and I love it it is a big heavy rifle with a heavy BART line barrel 28 inches long and A terminator t4 muzzle break but I do like it it's not a rifle you go stalking through the timber with but when I get on a pipe line or a big field I relax get prone and anything I can see is going down

 

[338 dude]

Thank you very much for the responses.

I DO NOT have any first hand experiences with hunting with larger bores but from my readings from people who actually did, appears that the larger heavier duty bullets tend to (for example) hit deer hard but cause less damage due to less expansion on lighter game. It also seems that significant damage was more from high speed more frangible bullets. what bullet would be recommended for a 338 Lapua, to cause less dramatic explosive results on light game but still be very effective?

I did find a very nice study online about Terminal Ballistics. from their work, seems like a limited expanding bullet, like the 210gr Barnes TSX would work really well. Does anyone have real world experiences with this?

A few years ago I stumbled on some info online where some were using larger rounds such as the 375 H&H and 458 win mag for deer. inexperienced people would comment that these rounds must have "blown up" the whitetail. but actually, because the bullets are heavier build, did not expand as they should. therefore, one small hole in, one small hole out but still outstanding performance.
Anyone experience this with the 338? what bullet did you use?

As for muzzle brakes....yup noisy. but I tend to shoot in uncrowded areas. or I just shoot at the far end, hopefully not under a cover.

My favorite rifle a few years ago was a customized 1917 enfield in 458 win mag. loved it. super accurate. built it a little heavier to better handle the sharp recoil of that cartridge. but I did shoot it off the bench. it liked the regular 510gr Winchester ammo. clover leaf groups at 100 yards. something about those long heavy bullets that made them shoot straight. no muzzle brake. what I really enjoyed with that heavy cartridge was that I could put together reloads which were really light, in the 45-70-ish range.

anyone have any experience in loading down the 338 Lapua to the tune of a 338-06 or similar round? many bigger case cartridges have the luxury of being loaded down if you wanted to.

I do reload. I find that my most fun or favorite rifles were because I could really play with loads/bullets. it's something to do.

I am originally from Maine. someday I will be returning and hopefully going on a moose hunt. Moose are not hard to kill, however, if not hit hard, they will wander off into the thick woods before expiring. My uncle successfully harvested a very large moose in Canada (about 1400 lbs). was using a 7mm rem. emptied rifle in the correct area around the shoulder. thought he missed. the moose finally fell at the last shot. when dressing the moose he was surprised to see all rounds hit where they were supposed to. moose tend to absorb rounds well. my thoughts is that the 338 stands a better chance of dropping the moose immediately in a better area than let it go off into the deep woods. any experiences with this?

Thank you very much for the responses.

I DO NOT have any first hand experiences with hunting with larger bores but from my readings from people who actually did, appears that the larger heavier duty bullets tend to (for example) hit deer hard but cause less damage due to less expansion on lighter game. It also seems that significant damage was more from high speed more frangible bullets. what bullet would be recommended for a 338 Lapua, to cause less dramatic explosive results on light game but still be very effective?

I did find a very nice study online about Terminal Ballistics. from their work, seems like a limited expanding bullet, like the 210gr Barnes TSX would work really well. Does anyone have real world experiences with this?

A few years ago I stumbled on some info online where some were using larger rounds such as the 375 H&H and 458 win mag for deer. inexperienced people would comment that these rounds must have "blown up" the whitetail. but actually, because the bullets are heavier build, did not expand as they should. therefore, one small hole in, one small hole out but still outstanding performance.
Anyone experience this with the 338? what bullet did you use?

As for muzzle brakes....yup noisy. but I tend to shoot in uncrowded areas. or I just shoot at the far end, hopefully not under a cover.

My favorite rifle a few years ago was a customized 1917 enfield in 458 win mag. loved it. super accurate. built it a little heavier to better handle the sharp recoil of that cartridge. but I did shoot it off the bench. it liked the regular 510gr Winchester ammo. clover leaf groups at 100 yards. something about those long heavy bullets that made them shoot straight. no muzzle brake. what I really enjoyed with that heavy cartridge was that I could put together reloads which were really light, in the 45-70-ish range.

anyone have any experience in loading down the 338 Lapua to the tune of a 338-06 or similar round? many bigger case cartridges have the luxury of being loaded down if you wanted to.

I do reload. I find that my most fun or favorite rifles were because I could really play with loads/bullets. it's something to do.

I am originally from Maine. someday I will be returning and hopefully going on a moose hunt. Moose are not hard to kill, however, if not hit hard, they will wander off into the thick woods before expiring. My uncle successfully harvested a very large moose in Canada (about 1400 lbs). was using a 7mm rem. emptied rifle in the correct area around the shoulder. thought he missed. the moose finally fell at the last shot. when dressing the moose he was surprised to see all rounds hit where they were supposed to. moose tend to absorb rounds well. my thoughts is that the 338 stands a better chance of dropping the moose immediately in a better area than let it go off into the deep woods. any experiences with this?

I have no experience with Moose not yet anyway hope to but a 338 Lapua with a 250 grain burger elite Hunter is extremely good for deer

 

[James Pearson]

I've done the 338 Lapua, and was a tack driver at 800 which was as far as I ever got with it.
I hunted with it 1 year, everything I shot was DRT!
But I wanted to shoot more, maybe competition, so I loaded up 100 rounds and hit the range one lovely spring day. At about shot 69/70, I had hematoma'd my right shoulder so bad that I didn't shoot anything for about 6 weeks.

I had shot numerous sessions of 20 to 30 rounds each with no issues. I always thought it was pretty easy on me. Well, that took the fun out of that so I sold it and have reinvested that into more enjoyable shooting guns.
Bigger is not better, too many choices in manageable calibers for Long Range recreational/competitive shooting.
JMHO

 

[Bravo 4]

I've done the 338 Lapua, and was a tack driver at 800 which was as far as I ever got with it.
I hunted with it 1 year, everything I shot was DRT!
But I wanted to shoot more, maybe competition, so I loaded up 100 rounds and hit the range one lovely spring day. At about shot 69/70, I had hematoma'd my right shoulder so bad that I didn't shoot anything for about 6 weeks.

I had shot numerous sessions of 20 to 30 rounds each with no issues. I always thought it was pretty easy on me. Well, that took the fun out of that so I sold it and have reinvested that into more enjoyable shooting guns.
Bigger is not better, too many choices in manageable calibers for Long Range recreational/competitive shooting.
JMHO

That wasn't the rifle/cartridge/caliber at fault, that was 100% operator error in not choosing the right equipment for the task at hand.

 

[KyCarl]

A big heavy bullet going pretty fast with great accuracy..Duh..Perfect.
Too many Hunters give into Guides! I have breaks on my rifles That's how I do it!
If he doesn't like it..Cool I'll spend my money elsewhere!.. Freedom of Choice!
You should see all the Purple Chests and Shoulders that big time trap shooters have!

 

[338 dude]

The 338 Lapua Magnum is a great round. All the negative post surrounding the 338 LM is about measuring up that's all. All I read is how other rounds perform as well or better, those guys need to stick to what they like not compare. Nobody compares other rounds to theirs but they pick on this bad boy. I have been shooting the 338 LM out of a Sako TRG 42 since Feb of 2009. I love it. It's all I need for any application, Get behind one ( I would recommend a TRG ) and really shoot it. It's sounds like a Beast but performs beautify. For hunting I load light projectiles and keep the velocity stable, it does as much damage as a 30 06.
Good Luck
Clever

TRG nice, well said

 

[338 dude]

I have always liked the .338 caliber for some reason. partly because of the information out there and partly just because. recoil wise/accuracy wise, if someone made a very accurate recoil controlled affordable rifle in the 338 win mag I would be all over it. I have yet to find one. I think years ago Remington did make a Sendero in that round but I have never found one. the frustrating thing about firearms companies....they might make nice models, but don't seem to make it in enough cartridge variations. I suppose I could get a custom order but then that "affordable" option will likely go out the window.
for me, I really like the Savage FCP series....I did place a call to Savage to see what it would cost to have a model 12 LRP but in 6.5-284. cost would have been $1700. ouch what a cost increase. so, I stick with off the shelf models.

My 110 FCP and 338 was $1368 from Kentucky gun company now that was several years ago but still very affordable with a 28 inch BART line I believe the rifle comes in about 14 pounds with a nightforce scope I believe it's right around 16 pounds with the Terminator t4 break recoil is comparable to a 308

 

[KyCarl]

Mine is a MPA 338BA and the adjustable chassis helps! I'm not a fan of one size fits all.
Because they don't! I can fine tune the chassis for almost anyone and it's heavy.
So with good fit.. heavy rifle and muzzle break it's honestly not that bad! ..Very Loud!!

 

[338 dude]

A 26" .30-06 AI can push a 185 VLD over 2,900 fps... I'd say that's pretty fair level of performance.

As smart as you think you are, and as dumb as you think I am (apparently), I still don't understand why you would waste a $1.00 projectile and a firing on your brass that was derated, when you could simply buy the proper rifle to begin with. If you load the rifle down to hunt locally, then it's obvious that you don't need a rifle that powerful to begin with. If you hunt out of state a lot, then that's one thing, but if you never hunt out of state where you need something of that caliber, then why own it? There is always that "because I wanted it" factor, and if that's the case, then why not load up full-power loads and go shoot it? Last I checked there are no elk, caribou, moose, or brown bear in Louisiana. And more whitetails per year are killed with more .243, .270 and .30-06 rifles than anything else.

I hunt with a 7mm RemMag, as well. But even it is slightly overkill for whitetails. But I like the flat trajectory.

Big alligators !LOL