Who makes a heavyweight .277" High-BC Match-Style bullet?

[Fiftydriver]

Stevewix,

I can think of one combo that will offer a bit more down range performance with the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT!!!

Sounds like an interesting project you have there. Accurate as well. Best bet for Richard, call him instead of e-mail and its best to do so in the evenings after dark.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Chawlston]

Richard told me he flat out aint gonna send out no seconds, same thing he told Kirby he keeps getting bad jackets. You want junk? Ya aint gettin it from him!.......May 07 Chawlston looks like you ordered in the middle of his farming and got at least another 4 months to go!

Yea, I want my 400 now too, but not right to bash a guy doing the best he can for his customers! And my check finally went through yesterday so in a couple months Ill have a right to whine!

Ordered mine in Feb 07, So stop whinin!

Actually, it was back in March when he sent me an unsolicited email containing photos of the bullets with the aluminum tips. So, you can add two more months to the ordeal.

Chawlston

 

[lerch]

wildcat bullets can be a hard to find bullet sometimes so the best bet it to buy lots of the one you want when they are available. Richard is a hell of a nice guy to deal with and he makes a hell of a product. Some people need to understand that this is not his only business and he can be very hard to reach sometimes do to farming or other situations. He offers a service you really cant find anywhere else so i am more than happy to deal with the occasional hiccups along the way. I mean where the hell else are you gonna find hand made, VLD-ULD,match grade, custom designed hunting bullets that a guy will go out of his way to make for you???? pretty sure i can handle the occasional inconvience for all of that just buy several of them when you get some.

take it easy
steve

 

[Chawlston]

If I ever get any of the ones I ordered, I may then be able to more appreciate the process and the product. However, ten months is not an occassional hiccup. It is a disaster. And, if he is so busy that he cannot deliver, then he should not promise delivery in the first place.

My position is that he promised delivery and did not ship merchandise or, answer emails or even return phone calls. If he is too busy to answer emails or phone calls pertaining to orders, then maybe he needs get out of the bullet business. His customer service and customer support is non-existent from my viewpoint. This is a lot different than the two previous orders I had from him.

Chawlston

 

[Buffalobob]

Well, I ordered 700 bullets from him and got them and I am still waiting on the gunsmith to build my rifle 13 months later. Why am I still waiting on the rifle? Because when I look in the mirror I do not wish to see a person who cannot accept reasonable issues that arise in life.

Richard provides a service that we cannot get elsewhere and your premise that he should quit making us bullets seems somewhat like taking an axe to one's foot.

 

[lerch]

you, me, no one on here knows for sure what is or has been going on in Richards life or what difficulties he might be having making any number of particular bullets so jumping the gun and talking crap about him before you get any difinitive answers seems kinda hasty.

delays from richard dont really bother me too much so im gonna keep on shooting them mean ol canadian boolits

 

[Fiftydriver]

Chawlston,

So you have been waiting on Aluminum tipped bullets. I will tell you for a fact that there have only been a very small number of AT RBBTs sent out and those were for the sole purpose of accuracy and ballistic testing.

I would almost bet money that Richard told you there was no time frame as to when he expected to have those AT RBBTs ready to ship.

Again, let me offer some "excuses" for you.

Bringing a bullet like this to the market is not something that is easy. The engineering element along is a serious project. Then getting someone to make the aluminum tips to your specs is another project.

Then getting the bullet die maker to make you a die that is the way its supposed to be for these long tipped bullets is another feat.

Then getting a jacket that does not match up with the step on the tip causes more delays.

Then getting feed back from those testing the bullets and realizing there are certain issues with the AT RBBTs that need to be corrected before they can be offered to the public.

Then trying to figure out what is needed in custom dies, new tip designs and new jacket designs all over again.

Repeat the process over and over until you finally get it perfect for your customers. Richard is somewhere in the middle of that mess with the AT RBBTs and getting them to the public.

Can you imagine if he sent out a batch of bullets to customers that had loose tips? Can you imagine if he sent out bullets that had crooked tips?
Do you think the public would be understanding of this or do you think they would fly off and bad mouth Wildcat bullets every chance they got. Many would be understanding, but there would be enough that would raise hell and not understand the "growing pains" if bring such a bullet to the market and the bad press would be more then a small business could overcome.

Who else is offering a bullet that has the BC of a solid brass VLD type bullet but with the expansion of a big game bullet and with consist accuracy out of a variaty of different bore diameters?

How else is trying to offer these things, NO ONE!!! The only other aluminum tipped bullet out there is the 750 gr A-Max from Hornady that I am aware of. The reason, they are not cheap to build and they are tricky to make on a smaller caliber scale.

You have to test tip design and how it effects expansion, you have to figure out how to get those tips to seat straight as can be and stay put when seated. You have to figure out what jacket thickness will allow good expansion but yet not be to heavy to prevent expansion at long range yet again not be to thin to blow up at close range.

You make it sound like a year is SO long to wait for such a product, you need to realize that these things take time. When you bring something new to the market place, time is something you spend ALOT of, including MONEY.

If you understood the time and effort Richard has placed in this project, not to mention money invested, you may be a bit more understanding. If you have ever tried to bring something to the market that has never been done before, you would also understand the frustrations involved with such a project but from your comments, its easy to see you have no experience with such things.

As far as I know, the AT RBBT is not even available to customers yet. I do not have any other then the bullets Richard sent to me to test as far as load data, ballistic testing, accuracy testing and some limited field testing.

You may have placed and order but I would bet Richard has never said when the bullets would be ready for customer orders to be placed. If he did it would suprise me tremedously knowing Richard.

Again, my comment to you is this, I do not mean to offend in any way but you need to educate yourself to the process and what is involved in getting from an idea in your head to customers having bullets in their hands. Its a long road and a year is a short time to bring a product like this from idea to reality.

You just need to be a bit more realistic in your demands.

Just my opinion but the more you talk, the more it becomes clear why your bullets have not arrived, there are none to ship at this time. Richard may well have sent you a picture of these bullets, hell I could post a dozen pics of these bullets, but I would bet he never said that they would be ready to shop on a certain date.

I am confident in that because I have been bugging Richard from the start about these bullets and if they were ready to ship, I would have heard about it and more then likely been testing them already for Richard.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[ss7mm]

I've been reading this with great interest since the beginning of this thread. Had it been on any other web site I would have already answered in a way that would probably be fitting to the "other" site/s. However, I consider this site to be special and also consider the majority of the people on here to be understanding and very knowledgeable. Having said all of the above I will say that I think this has gotten out of hand and I'm surprised it's stayed as civil as it has.

FWIW, they do not return emails or deliver on their promises of shipping unless you are in some inner circle.

First of all, there is no "they", there is only Richard and as you have already read making bullets is not his primary way of making a living. Second of all, I would be very interested in knowing "all" of both sides of the story but I don't really want to know because I know Richard and have dealt with him for a long time. I have had lapses in communication with Richard over the years and it could have become an issue but I always remember who I'm dealing with, how he has to work, and what it is I'm wanting from him. Thirdly, if there is such a word, there is no inner circle. I would hope that Kirby would be closer than anyone just to make sure that all development and testing could continue as well as it has in the past.

I am still waiting on bullets promised in May. They may make the slickest bullets, but they have some issues in delivering product.

I've been waiting longer than that but that's just the name of the game when you deal with one of a kind, best you can get, in great demand products produced by someone that will only make the best and absolutely nothing else. As far as I'm concerned I'd expect, nor want, nothing less from Richard. That's why I order Wildcat bullets. They are the best and well worth waiting for.

Until they resolve those issues and can deliver in say three months from when an order is placed, I will stick with the ones that can be had in a reasonable amount of time.

**** Sam, doesn't anyone read threads on here and keep up to date??? It's been discussed countless times about Richard's problem with getting jackets and how hard he has been working on it. It's been discussed countless times about all problems he has encountered and exactly what is causing delays. We all play the same game, in the same conditions, on the same playing field. WE ARE ALL WAITING and I promise you, it'll be worth the wait.

Yes I have. I have both called and sent numerous emails.

Been there and done that myself but I try to understand he has a life, he goes hunting, he has a family to feed and he will produce the best bullets available as soon as it is physically possible. For that I can wait.

I have done research and bullets were shipped to folks after he promised me a shipment.

Just curious, do you know for a fact that you ordered before them or are you just angry and frustrated because you don't have any yet? Not flaming or anything just trying to get to what is going on so that nobody gets blamed unfairly.

Maybe one day all the issues will be resolved and he will get caught up and I can get some.

I can guarantee you that Richard is working as hard as he can to do just that and then we can all get some.

It does not matter who makes the best if he choses not to fulfill orders or ignore orders. If his business is damaged, it is by his practices and lack of fulfillment of his promised shipments. No more no less.

Again, I can guarantee you that Richard does not "choose not to fulfill orders" nor does he ignore orders and that was a statement that I don't think was justified nor called for. You have absolutely no idea how much trouble he goes through trying to get the best components and the cost that he pays before he can even start to make our bullets.

I have talked a lot with Richard about what he goes through to get products and supplies, how much it costs him and the amounts he has to order just to get anything. This, coupled with about a hundred other things causes me to be amazed that he even goes to the trouble he does to get bullets made for us. If we all had an inkling of what he does and what he goes through, in addition to his main life, we would be amazed.

Actually, it was back in March when he sent me an unsolicited email containing photos of the bullets with the aluminum tips. So, you can add two more months to the ordeal.

I'm sorry that you had to suffer through the ordeal of receiving "an unsolicited email containing photos of the bullets with the aluminum tips." I remember getting the same picture and I was glad that Richard took the time to send it. If it was such an imposition you could probably ask him to not send you any unsolicited emails any more. Again, not flaming just trying to defuse something that seems to have been fused and flamed by frustration and I'm sorry that had to happen.

If I ever get any of the ones I ordered, I may then be able to more appreciate the process and the product.

Seems strange to me that you would have to have product in hand before you can understand the problems.

If he is too busy to answer emails or phone calls pertaining to orders, then maybe he needs get out of the bullet business.

I for one hope he never gets out of the business. I'm glad that people with short fuses and lack of understanding aren't allowed to make decisions for the people I do business with.

His customer service and customer support is non-existent from my viewpoint.

Sorry bud but I have to take issue with that statement. Richard's customer service and customer support is the finest I have ever dealt with. I put Richard and Kirby at the top of the list and in the same boat when it comes to great customer service and support.

This is a lot different than the two previous orders I had from him.

Sounds like you had good experiences with him before. I find it unusual that now you talk about him like you do because of this one occurance, that to my understanding, still has not been cleared up, yet you choose a public forum to bad mouth him and his business not to mention the apparent personal attack on him and his business ethics.

Hell, if it has caused you this much grief and you are so distraught by all of this just tell me how much money you are out on this last deal and I'll send you a check to cover all of your expenses. Then you can go out and buy some mediocre bullets and go to shooting. Also, if I have any of the bullets you had ordered, I will send them to you free of charge to make up for your unsurmountable inconvenience. Let me know what bullets or where to send the check.

Chawlston, I hope you take this all for what it was intended to be, a way to try and explain anything that may not have occurred to you or that you didn't know. No flaming, no personal attack just trying to keep things friendly and civil. I've always enjoyed your posts and the way you seem to be into this long range game. Look around, read the posts, how many people do you know that had the problem you did or that talk about Richard like you have. NONE that I now of. Let me know if there is any way I can help you out of this predicament.

And, read and re-read Kirby's post just above this one as it covers it pretty well. Glad I happened to check on new posts before I posted this one.

 

[gbp]

You can check with JLK, even though they are not spacifically listed on their site they may be making them
JLK Home

Corbin Custom Bullet Makers List

 

[Stevewix]

Guys I got 'em ordered today, they'll ship the next time he goes to town. One of the most genuinely honest and likeable people i've talked to. We sat and shot the breeze for about 30 minutes about everything from coyotes, to bullets, jackets, twist rates etc.

I was a little surprised to see they'd more than likely ship tomorrow, but I think he mentioned something about this being his most popular bullet. I imagine so! I wish more bullet manufacturers would get their asses moving and make heavy, high-BC long range hunting bullets. The overbore wildcats and magnums have really created a need for these components.

 

[joecool]

Well I bought a 270 AM from Kirby that he built for somebody else then they couldn't pay for it so I bought it. May first concern was the bullets for the 270 it seemed that I had to get them from Richard to really make it shine, not something that I was real comfortable with at first.

So I emailed Richard and called and talked to him on the phone told him I was in need of some 195's he told me he was having jacket problems with them but he would put some together for me anyways, don't know how many he had to but together but he sent me 400 of them. Just an email saying bullets on the way!!!!

Then I ordered 500 169.5s from him didn't hear from him except please refer to your self as Larry Daugherty from Oregon… seems he has two customers with that name. Then I got an email from him saying bullets on the way.

Now Richard sends these bullets out without being paid so when I get them I go into double time making sure he gets his money. You won't find a better person to do business with.

Being he farms I'm surprised he has time for any bullet building…

 

[Chawlston]

Well, I ordered 700 bullets from him and got them and I am still waiting on the gunsmith to build my rifle 13 months later. Why am I still waiting on the rifle? Because when I look in the mirror I do not wish to see a person who cannot accept reasonable issues that arise in life.

Richard provides a service that we cannot get elsewhere and your premise that he should quit making us bullets seems somewhat like taking an axe to one's foot.

I said, if he can't deliver. And, that applies to any business. If they don't/can't deliver they usually will fold up due to customer satisfaction problems.

On the other hand, gunsmiths will usually tell you what the approximate wait is on a custom gun delivery and that usually depends on if it is customer supplied components or if the smith procures them himself. If they told you three months and it was into more than ten or if they would not answer the phone or return emails, then you would not be a happy camper.

Anyway, you have your opinions and I have the facts. I am sure the bullets are great, but I am not going to hold on to or order special twist barrels and then sit on them with the hope of shipment of promisted bullets.

This just opens up the opportunity for another company to jump in and be competitive.

You guys need to quit making excuses for someone else's errors/omissions/mistakes etc, etc, etc,. It just doens't change the facts of the situation.

Chawlston

 

[Chawlston]

Chawlston,

So you have been waiting on Aluminum tipped bullets. I will tell you for a fact that there have only been a very small number of AT RBBTs sent out and those were for the sole purpose of accuracy and ballistic testing.

I would almost bet money that Richard told you there was no time frame as to when he expected to have those AT RBBTs ready to ship.

Again, let me offer some "excuses" for you.

Bringing a bullet like this to the market is not something that is easy. The engineering element along is a serious project. Then getting someone to make the aluminum tips to your specs is another project.

Then getting the bullet die maker to make you a die that is the way its supposed to be for these long tipped bullets is another feat.

Then getting a jacket that does not match up with the step on the tip causes more delays.

Then getting feed back from those testing the bullets and realizing there are certain issues with the AT RBBTs that need to be corrected before they can be offered to the public.

Then trying to figure out what is needed in custom dies, new tip designs and new jacket designs all over again.

Repeat the process over and over until you finally get it perfect for your customers. Richard is somewhere in the middle of that mess with the AT RBBTs and getting them to the public.

Can you imagine if he sent out a batch of bullets to customers that had loose tips? Can you imagine if he sent out bullets that had crooked tips?
Do you think the public would be understanding of this or do you think they would fly off and bad mouth Wildcat bullets every chance they got. Many would be understanding, but there would be enough that would raise hell and not understand the "growing pains" if bring such a bullet to the market and the bad press would be more then a small business could overcome.

Who else is offering a bullet that has the BC of a solid brass VLD type bullet but with the expansion of a big game bullet and with consist accuracy out of a variaty of different bore diameters?

How else is trying to offer these things, NO ONE!!! The only other aluminum tipped bullet out there is the 750 gr A-Max from Hornady that I am aware of. The reason, they are not cheap to build and they are tricky to make on a smaller caliber scale.

You have to test tip design and how it effects expansion, you have to figure out how to get those tips to seat straight as can be and stay put when seated. You have to figure out what jacket thickness will allow good expansion but yet not be to heavy to prevent expansion at long range yet again not be to thin to blow up at close range.

You make it sound like a year is SO long to wait for such a product, you need to realize that these things take time. When you bring something new to the market place, time is something you spend ALOT of, including MONEY.

If you understood the time and effort Richard has placed in this project, not to mention money invested, you may be a bit more understanding. If you have ever tried to bring something to the market that has never been done before, you would also understand the frustrations involved with such a project but from your comments, its easy to see you have no experience with such things.

As far as I know, the AT RBBT is not even available to customers yet. I do not have any other then the bullets Richard sent to me to test as far as load data, ballistic testing, accuracy testing and some limited field testing.

You may have placed and order but I would bet Richard has never said when the bullets would be ready for customer orders to be placed. If he did it would suprise me tremedously knowing Richard.

Again, my comment to you is this, I do not mean to offend in any way but you need to educate yourself to the process and what is involved in getting from an idea in your head to customers having bullets in their hands. Its a long road and a year is a short time to bring a product like this from idea to reality.

You just need to be a bit more realistic in your demands.

Just my opinion but the more you talk, the more it becomes clear why your bullets have not arrived, there are none to ship at this time. Richard may well have sent you a picture of these bullets, hell I could post a dozen pics of these bullets, but I would bet he never said that they would be ready to shop on a certain date.

I am confident in that because I have been bugging Richard from the start about these bullets and if they were ready to ship, I would have heard about it and more then likely been testing them already for Richard.

Kirby Allen(50)

Kirby,

Don't take offense, but,

you have zero knowledge about the communication between Richard and I.

You have zero knowledge of my level of understanding and expertise of the manufacturing process or processes (my family owned a custom manufacturing company).

You have zero knowledge of what I know or do not know with regard to the bullet making process.

And, you have zero knowledge of my tolerance level or level of patience.

I basically stated historical evidence to a new shooter so that he could make intelligent decisions.



My advice and request to you is three-fold:

#1--Stop assuming that the folks you are communicating with know less about the subjects than you do. You may wind up learning something.

#2--Understand that my comment is about customer service, ignoring emails and not returning phone calls...... Nothing else.

#3--Quit making excuses and deviating from my issue. If you want to discuss customer service fine do it. But understand that all you have drivelled in your defense of the customer service situation was known and has been taken into account.

Finally, everyone makes mistakes. How one handles those mistakes and the actions they take to rectify or alleviate them is what seperates the butter from the butter cream.

Chawlston

 

[Chawlston]

I've been reading this with great interest since the beginning of this thread. Had it been on any other web site I would have already answered in a way that would probably be fitting to the "other" site/s. However, I consider this site to be special and also consider the majority of the people on here to be understanding and very knowledgeable. Having said all of the above I will say that I think this has gotten out of hand and I'm surprised it's stayed as civil as it has.


First of all, there is no "they", there is only Richard and as you have already read making bullets is not his primary way of making a living. Second of all, I would be very interested in knowing "all" of both sides of the story but I don't really want to know because I know Richard and have dealt with him for a long time. I have had lapses in communication with Richard over the years and it could have become an issue but I always remember who I'm dealing with, how he has to work, and what it is I'm wanting from him. Thirdly, if there is such a word, there is no inner circle. I would hope that Kirby would be closer than anyone just to make sure that all development and testing could continue as well as it has in the past.


I've been waiting longer than that but that's just the name of the game when you deal with one of a kind, best you can get, in great demand products produced by someone that will only make the best and absolutely nothing else. As far as I'm concerned I'd expect, nor want, nothing less from Richard. That's why I order Wildcat bullets. They are the best and well worth waiting for.


**** Sam, doesn't anyone read threads on here and keep up to date??? It's been discussed countless times about Richard's problem with getting jackets and how hard he has been working on it. It's been discussed countless times about all problems he has encountered and exactly what is causing delays. We all play the same game, in the same conditions, on the same playing field. WE ARE ALL WAITING and I promise you, it'll be worth the wait.



Been there and done that myself but I try to understand he has a life, he goes hunting, he has a family to feed and he will produce the best bullets available as soon as it is physically possible. For that I can wait.



Just curious, do you know for a fact that you ordered before them or are you just angry and frustrated because you don't have any yet? Not flaming or anything just trying to get to what is going on so that nobody gets blamed unfairly.



I can guarantee you that Richard is working as hard as he can to do just that and then we can all get some.


Again, I can guarantee you that Richard does not "choose not to fulfill orders" nor does he ignore orders and that was a statement that I don't think was justified nor called for. You have absolutely no idea how much trouble he goes through trying to get the best components and the cost that he pays before he can even start to make our bullets.

I have talked a lot with Richard about what he goes through to get products and supplies, how much it costs him and the amounts he has to order just to get anything. This, coupled with about a hundred other things causes me to be amazed that he even goes to the trouble he does to get bullets made for us. If we all had an inkling of what he does and what he goes through, in addition to his main life, we would be amazed.


I'm sorry that you had to suffer through the ordeal of receiving "an unsolicited email containing photos of the bullets with the aluminum tips." I remember getting the same picture and I was glad that Richard took the time to send it. If it was such an imposition you could probably ask him to not send you any unsolicited emails any more. Again, not flaming just trying to defuse something that seems to have been fused and flamed by frustration and I'm sorry that had to happen.


Seems strange to me that you would have to have product in hand before you can understand the problems.


I for one hope he never gets out of the business. I'm glad that people with short fuses and lack of understanding aren't allowed to make decisions for the people I do business with.


Sorry bud but I have to take issue with that statement. Richard's customer service and customer support is the finest I have ever dealt with. I put Richard and Kirby at the top of the list and in the same boat when it comes to great customer service and support.


Sounds like you had good experiences with him before. I find it unusual that now you talk about him like you do because of this one occurance, that to my understanding, still has not been cleared up, yet you choose a public forum to bad mouth him and his business not to mention the apparent personal attack on him and his business ethics.

Hell, if it has caused you this much grief and you are so distraught by all of this just tell me how much money you are out on this last deal and I'll send you a check to cover all of your expenses. Then you can go out and buy some mediocre bullets and go to shooting. Also, if I have any of the bullets you had ordered, I will send them to you free of charge to make up for your unsurmountable inconvenience. Let me know what bullets or where to send the check.

Chawlston, I hope you take this all for what it was intended to be, a way to try and explain anything that may not have occurred to you or that you didn't know. No flaming, no personal attack just trying to keep things friendly and civil. I've always enjoyed your posts and the way you seem to be into this long range game. Look around, read the posts, how many people do you know that had the problem you did or that talk about Richard like you have. NONE that I now of. Let me know if there is any way I can help you out of this predicament.

And, read and re-read Kirby's post just above this one as it covers it pretty well. Glad I happened to check on new posts before I posted this one.

Come on man......... He refuses to communicate about the issue. There is nothing else left for me to do. Anyway, I will take you up on your offer and will PM you the amounts and the address to send the funds. Thanks for your offering.

Chawlston