White oak

I just wanted to post the email response I got from John Hollinger when I asked when my barrel might be done, since they were 4 weeks late, this is the email he sent me!

Hi Thomas,
I apologize that we have not met our delivery schedule. We do try hard, but sometimes we miss them. Phone calls and e-mails slow down the production process greatly so in order to help us both out we are cancelling your order at this time so you will not feel the need to make the calls and send the multiple e-mails.

Again, my apologies for not living up to the standard of customer service that we try to deliver.

Thank you,
John Holliger
White Oak Armament
White Oak Armament
309-376-2288


This is awesome customer service huh!!! and when I called he basically said that he doesn't need to cater to me. John went on to say that his lead time that he gives his customers was just his "best guess." I asked why he couldnt put my order thats 4 weeks overdue to the front of the production line and he said "I do them as they come in" well the problem is that my order was 4 weeks late and the others he was working on were 3 weeks early.

John may be a great shooter and provide good barrels but his business sense is garbage!

So he canceled my order after waiting 12 weeks because he thought that this was the best way to handle being late on my order.

needless to say I ordered a noveske barrel and it was to my door in 5 days. I will never do business with white oak again and I will show everyone that wants to order his barrels this email he sent.

just beware that if you dont want to do it as john wants you probably wont get what you want.
 
Thomas,

That sounded like an unusual response from John. I wonder what triggered it. Perhaps he perceived you as one of those customers who are not worth doing business with due to the aggravation. Your presenting his email in a vacuum does little to shed light on the totality of the transaction. Perhaps you should post your own emails to White Oak and detail your phone calls.

I don't do business with clients that I perceive are more trouble than they are worth. Life is too short. This may be one such occasion for John.

Dan
 
DZelenka said:
Thomas,

That sounded like an unusual response from John. I wonder what triggered it. Perhaps he perceived you as one of those customers who are not worth doing business with due to the aggravation. Your presenting his email in a vacuum does little to shed light on the totality of the transaction. Perhaps you should post your own emails to White Oak and detail your phone calls.

I don't do business with clients that I perceive are more trouble than they are worth. Life is too short. This may be one such occasion for John.

Dan
Click to expand...

well I placed the order with jane and was quoted 8 weeks. I put the 8 week lead time into my calendar and then when the 8 weeks were up I attempted to send an email on their site to see what the status of my order was. I waited 3 days with no answer so I called to see if there was a problem with them receiving my email with no answer so I left a message. I waited another 3 days and then sent an email from my personal email directly to the sales department at white oak (same email I received my order from) with no response. I waited 2 more days and made another phone call since the two emails and one phone call hadnt been returned. It was 10 days since I sent the first email when I caught jane on the phone on that last call.

Jane said that it was going to be about 10 weeks instead of 8 weeks so I clarified that that was in only 1 week from the time when we were talking. she assured me that it would be done and shipped then.

So I waited and again contacted them AFTER the 10 weeks had passed. Jane again said it was going to be another 2 weeks and then I asked this simple question, "are you guaranteeing me that it will be done and shipped in 2 weeks from now? You keep telling me '2 more weeks' so I just want a more solid date, if its going to be 4 or 6 more weeks then I just want to know." Jane assured me it was only 2 more weeks. I then said "well is there anything you can do for me since you guys are late and keep pushing the date back...something like throwing in free shipping or expedited shipping?" jane said she could so I was ok that she now was at least throwing me a little bone here.

Lets remember that this is only a barrel and john isnt making the blanks just contouring and chambering them. this isnt for an entire build or anything.

So at the 12 weeks I called again and sent an initial email with no answer to the sales department (I clarified that they received my last emails) with no answer.

Then I was thinking that the problem was Jane (John business assistant) and she was just loading me with hot air and she was the main problem. So I sent an email that included John's email so I knew he would get it.

Instead of him addressing the issue with jane not providing the customer service she should he basically sent me the above email. I called him on the phone after receiving the email and asked what he was thinking and his response was that if I didnt like the service he was providing to go somewhere else. I explained that his company made a promise and I was only asking him to live up to it or at least be strait with me. It was like talking to a brick wall. I tried to ask him if he has filled orders that were early on their delivery dates (like a barrel he promised in 12 weeks that was shipped in 10) and he said yes, so I asked him why he wasnt making my order that was behind wait? He said he does the orders as they come in, and I asked why wouldnt he do orders that are the closest to being due (closest to their promised delivery dates) and he said he doesnt do that. then I asked how he makes the projected delivery dates he gives his customers and he says its his best guess and that was it.

Maybe I caught him on an off day or whatever but I have been in the gun business at the highest volume gun store in washington as their top salesman so its not like i dont have a clue. I have also been in other customer service and his response was ridiculous. He basically wasted 12 weeks of my time because he couldnt deliver on his promise. the funny thing I told him was that if he actually delivered the barrel as promised in the 8 weeks there wouldnt have been any emails or phone calls, also if I got a strait answer the first time or a response to any of my attempts to contact them that I wouldnt have had to try to make other attempts. Once he realized that his companies actions and especially the poor customer service from his assistant Jane caused the problem he didnt want to talk or make it right. He didnt want to say he was wrong so he told me to go away.

So now to you, what business do you own? if you are a business owner then how would you have treated your customer? How would you have felt or what would you expect if you were in my shoes and couldnt get any responses from them after multiple attempts over different media and gave a 2-3 day window between transmissions?
 
Last edited:
Thomas,

I practice law and I choose my clients carefully. Some are just not worth having due to the grief they cause.

I am also an owner of a new car dealership. The theory that the customer is always right only goes so far. You have to look at the circumstances and make a judgment call. Once again, some customers are not worth having.

I don't know what triggered John's reaction, but I can tell you it was quite unusual for him. I have always found him to be polite, soft spoken and helpful. His work is first rate.

Dan
 
midnightmalloy said:
I just wanted to post the email response I got from John Hollinger when I asked when my barrel might be done, since they were 4 weeks late, this is the email he sent me!

Hi Thomas,
I apologize that we have not met our delivery schedule. We do try hard, but sometimes we miss them. Phone calls and e-mails slow down the production process greatly so in order to help us both out we are cancelling your order at this time so you will not feel the need to make the calls and send the multiple e-mails.

Again, my apologies for not living up to the standard of customer service that we try to deliver.

Thank you,
John Holliger
White Oak Armament
White Oak Armament
309-376-2288


This is awesome customer service huh!!! and when I called he basically said that he doesn't need to cater to me. John went on to say that his lead time that he gives his customers was just his "best guess." I asked why he couldnt put my order thats 4 weeks overdue to the front of the production line and he said "I do them as they come in" well the problem is that my order was 4 weeks late and the others he was working on were 3 weeks early.

John may be a great shooter and provide good barrels but his business sense is garbage!

So he canceled my order after waiting 12 weeks because he thought that this was the best way to handle being late on my order.

needless to say I ordered a noveske barrel and it was to my door in 5 days. I will never do business with white oak again and I will show everyone that wants to order his barrels this email he sent.

just beware that if you dont want to do it as john wants you probably wont get what you want.
Click to expand...


That's the funniest reply to multiple emails and calls I've ever read. My next upper is definitely WOA. I can sympathize w/the business owner on this one.
 
reminds me of that "have Bill call me" guy on TOS, where the customer got fired.
 
It just us what it is. A gunsmith with a full shop doesn't have to be a real sweetheart. I waited a year on a ~3 month rifle build. Didn't haa as ve much choice, but the rifle turned out pretty good.
 
I have had a lot of experience in customer service both professionally and as a volunteer. I have found it best to set proper expectations by saying "we shoot for x time period". I've also offered rush service at a price that makes me happier about it. That said, I've sent more than one customer packing; some customers just aren't worth the hassle.

My dad had an auto parts yard. He had a customer mention he had come from a buddy's yard offhand, and we knew he had the part. Just for fun my dad called for a reference. Our buddy said the guy agreed to a price and tried to renegotiate after he pulled the small part. My dad told the guy, "I'm sorry, but your references have been declined we can't do business with you."
 

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