whiskey three precision

[Demon061]

The business I own is BTG Research. In the past decade, I've probably published more research papers than any other American scientist in the field of ballistics. As a founding member of the International Ballistics Society and member of their Publications Committee, I've probably been a reviewer on more peer reviewed articles than any other American scientist in the field of ballistics.

However, one need not have an extensive resume in ballistics to recognize Michael Eichele got it right when he wrote:

Let me be the first to call bs on those BC numbers.

Husband and wife MIT dreamteam?

Impressive resume. I'm listening to this guy.

 

[IdahoRedneck]

So I didn't intend for this thread to turn into another bashing thread, but it somehow managed to but I heard that my bullets are on there way and am looking forward to giving them a try. idahoredneck shoot those bullets and give us a report. Even if the bc is lower than published should we really complain about having more bullet makers that are trying to make long range bullets and are willing to produce bullets that are overlooked by other manufactures?

I Think that we should wait and see before we toss w3p to the curb and if the bc's are close than that should be good enough and we can get them to publish accurate bc's but if they are so low that we might as well be shooting flat based round nosed bullets then lets complain.

Thats excactly where im at, expecting lower bc but still nice to be able to buy a premium LR aluminum or steel tipped bullet commercially. From the folks ive talked to these should be a very good medium to long range bullet, provided their accurate, from what ive seen so far im expecting accuracy.

Ill report back with my findings and im sure others will do the same. Bigngreen will be recieving his bullets and we know how his crew tests thingsgun).............I imagine we'll start seeing some answers pour in soon.

 

[Michael Courtney]

Husband and wife MIT dreamteam?

Impressive resume. I'm listening to this guy.

I prefer not to rest a case upon expertise or authority, but upon data and sound scientific and engineering principles.

Since direct BC measurements for these bullets are unavailable, the basis for my skepticism is the basic scientific principle that:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

We've seen the pattern of a new bullet maker claiming extraordinary BCs a number of times. Bullet makers seeking customers in the long range market know that sales are sensitive to advertised BCs, and some of the obsolete theoretical methods for predicting BCs produce much more optimistic numbers than actual measurements.

Some combination of factors leads many new bullet makers to publish and maintain extraordinary BC claims in spite of the fact that measuring BCs requires less than $1000 worth of equipment and is well within the abilities of most long range shooting enthusiasts, much less aspiring bullet makers.

Making and marketing bullets for long range and/or precision work without actually measuring their BCs makes about as much sense as making and marketing cars without actually measuring key specifications like horsepower and fuel economy.

 

[Demon061]

you know, I don't think it's a bashfest. There's a lot of frustration in this thread from both sides. We've got a few strong critics but nothing they've been asking is really unreasonable. The answer that keeps getting back is essentially "you guys aren't qualified to judge our bullets." Part of that is probably just a little mixture of hurt at implied insults from some posters (though I won't say there are many I'd call at all insulting) and pride at their product. I say give em' a shot, but at the same time I'd like to see real world third party testing data before I'd buy their bullets for loading after having read this and the previous thread.

 

[Demon061]

I prefer not to rest a case upon expertise or authority, but upon data and sound scientific and engineering principles.

Since direct BC measurements for these bullets are unavailable, the basis for my skepticism is the basic scientific principle that:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

We've seen the pattern of a new bullet maker claiming extraordinary BCs a number of times. Bullet makers seeking customers in the long range market know that sales are sensitive to advertised BCs, and some of the obsolete theoretical methods for predicting BCs produce much more optimistic numbers than actual measurements.

Some combination of factors leads many new bullet makers to publish and maintain extraordinary BC claims in spite of the fact that measuring BCs requires less than $1000 worth of equipment and is well within the abilities of most long range shooting enthusiasts, much less aspiring bullet makers.

Making and marketing bullets for long range and/or precision work without actually measuring their BCs makes about as much sense as making and marketing cars without actually measuring key specifications like horsepower and fuel economy.

Having spent far, far, far too much time in a genetics lab I agree with your first point and wouldn't take your word for gold, don't worry. As a fellow scientist (well, scientist in training I should say) I look at data, claims, and conclusions then extrapolate from there; and I wouldn't expect other reasonable people to conduct themselves in any other way.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Husband and wife MIT dreamteam?

Impressive resume. I'm listening to this guy.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING.

oops. I'm sure you are. LOL

 

[Demon061]

YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING.

oops. I'm sure you are. LOL

Yes and no. Data speaks for itself, but Bryan and Michael are probably the two guys who are most consistent with good data production and presentation here. I was being somewhat facetious, though.

 

[SA1000]

I'd would just like a reply from a email about the 338 cal bullets.

 

[BryanLitz]

Mr Culpepper,

I'll be happy to test your bullets for BC and share my results. I can do this free of charge, I'll just need about 20-25 samples of each bullet you'd like tested and I'll put them in the rotation.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll PM or email you my shipping address.

Thanks and take care,
-Bryan

 

[Pdvdh]

Impressive offer Bryan. Won't be long now, unless you don't receive any bullets.

This is gonna save Len a lotta bandwidth. Future Threads will contain 38 Posts - instead of 380.

 

[Demon061]

Oh relax, guys. I'm sure they'll do the best they can to get the bullets out.


Now, If I can just find some freaking 180 grain SST's and 215 hybrids somewheere I get a discount... bah! haha.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Mr Culpepper,

I'll be happy to test your bullets for BC and share my results. I can do this free of charge, I'll just need about 20-25 samples of each bullet you'd like tested and I'll put them in the rotation.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll PM or email you my shipping address.

Thanks and take care,
-Bryan

Thats quite an offer Bryan.

I'll await your results. Until then I'll stick with Bergers (when I can finf them...lol)

 

[gohring3006]

Mr Culpepper,

I'll be happy to test your bullets for BC and share my results. I can do this free of charge, I'll just need about 20-25 samples of each bullet you'd like tested and I'll put them in the rotation.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll PM or email you my shipping address.

Thanks and take care,
-Bryan

that's very dignified and respectful of you Bryan I told Mr. Culpepper you probably be willing to test them. You may have seen his reply, I think it would be a great solution for the greater good. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the bullets. He thinks your the enemy/competition. Haha

 

[Canadian Bushman]

guys that can out shoot anyone on this forum already have them and are doing their reviews and tests. Why would I want to give our product for the competition to test? Litz is married into the Berger family!! I'm not retarded and I will not send my competition anything to test. That's a dumb *** business move on my part. The folks that ordered them have and are getting their products. Not everyone on the planet that uses our products or is a pro in the real world uses this forum so it's on them to report back. Thus far.....not a single complaint. Hell even one of the customers that bought and disected them on here said it's quality stuff......

we are doing what we can to keep up with demand and expand.......we are small and on the road to bigger things. You guys are growing with us.....excuse the mess.....progress at work here!!!

Rather loose use of the word competition.