Which 7mm to build???

[shortpants]

Thanks LTLR! I sent you a pm that will answer what my priorities are for this build. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I am fully aware that there are better calibers at 1000. I am looking for a caliber to eventually get me to 1000. I'm not starting there nor am I capable of doing so. I have shot to 1000 on occasion but am no way going to call myself a 1000 yard shooter. I am looking for a 7mm cartridge that has the capabilities of getting me there through a lot of practice. That is why I am so insistent on an efficient round that won't burn the throat out in 1000 rds. I plan on shooting this gun a lot while still being able to hunt everything up to an elk with it. That does not mean I'm going to start launching lead at elk @1000yds. I practice with my bow out to 110 yards and am pretty decent at it but you won't hear about me trying to shoot game at that distance. I'm confident that a well placed arrow at 70yds will do the job and 70 is very doable for me because I push my limits and my equipment. It is the same with my rifles. I will push this 7mm build to it's limits on targets and know my limits with it on game. That is what has worked for me in the past and I see no reason to change what works. It is for these reasons that I believe I'm on the right path with this build. I figure by the time I reach the limits with this build I'll be ready for the next phase in my quest to learn long range shooting. If I find 900 is the limit with this build that's alright by me. Sounds like a good excuse to build the next one!

 

[WildRose]

My experience with the 7stw is much different than yours. And the ones I have been around had great care taken about heat and never more than a 3 shot grp.

So I was up at Dave Youngs yesterday (Youngs Custom Gunsmithing) dropping off another 7mm-300 build I am doing. Dave has done everything with the 7 stw that one could do. This includes one of his favorite rounds the 257 STW. Dave likes high velocity rounds and builds a ton of them. Dave has taken special interest in the 7mm-300 wins I have had him chamber for me. But that another story. So I asked Dave, under normal conditions with no abuse, when do you start to see throat errosion of the 7mmSTW. He quickly rplied at 500 rounds. Then went on to say by 1000 rounds most of them are ready for a new barrel if the shooter wants to retain their capable accuracy.

Now that does not mean they will not still hit a gong at 1000 if they have 1200 rounds through them. But for sure theyare dying a pretty rapid death after 500 rounds by my standards.

For what its worth, and this has also been my experience and why I say the 7mm -300 win is as large of case as I want 7mm for as much as we shoot.

Jeff gun)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't doubt your experience at all as I would call it fairly typical as is his.

I was warned of this before I bought it, which is why I always shot 140's, never hot loads, and only got it hot one time.

I'm pretty sure it's time for a new barrel as well.

The first cold bore shot is pretty much 100% repeatable every time at any range, but it gets erratic in a hurry when it heats up.

I think it'll be wearing a new Shilen ultra match in the ver near future and going into a new stock as well.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Because of all the shooting you are planning on I still think the 300 wsm will better suit you. The barrel life is far greater than the 7mm-300 wsm and with the 210 berger is a good long range hunter. Any 7mm cartridge that will equal the 300 wsm at long range hunting will have much less barrel life, even the 280 AI I love. That is the point I am trying to make.

I have many 7mm rifles and love to shoot them but for what you are doing you need to look at barrel wear. But if you are stuck on the 7mm thing I would still do the 280 AI because of the least barrel wear in a 7mm cartridge that will get you out there a ways. It is a fun cartridge to shoot and very accurate. Brass is cheap and you are within 75-100 fps of the 7mm remington.

I went back and read some of this. Broz and Wildrose are both on with their info and the 7mm-300 winny is a slightly less barrel burner than the 7mm stw. But both are way more barrel burners than you need. I haven't seen one that would shoot that fast but doesn't mean he doesn't have one. I have five 7mm STW's and love that cartridge for launching high bc bullets way out there at deer and antelope. But they are single shot with the new long high bc vld bullets. The winny is shorter and gives you a little more room. But if I was doing a super 7mm right now it would be the 7mm SIN which is an improved Dakota with the velocity of an RUM and the length of a 338 winny which is shorter than the 300 winny. Plenty of room to seat long bullets with top velocity in 7mm. This new stuff wasn't available in the 70's when I did my STW's. They weren't even called STW's for nearly twenty more years. But all this is way beyond what you need or want for a lot of shooting. The 300 wsm is the best choice for your purpose.

By the way a well placed arrow at 110 yards will kill anything in north america. The key is having the right arrow and knowing how to judge the personality of the animal to make the shot. I have taken grizzlies, elk, moose, caribou, deer, antelope, hogs and who knows what all else with a bow with quite a few over 100 yards. I had two guys with me last year in Alaska who shot caribou near 100 yards. It was funny because the caribou know how far to stay away from bowhunters and looked dumbfounded getting shot that far.

Went on JBM to run the numbers of my 7mm remington with 168's and 180's against my 300 wsm with 210's. With my accuracy loads this is for 1000 yards. Windage is 49.3" for all three. But the energy was way in the favor of the 300 wsm having 1546 ft lbs vs 1259 for the 168 and 1272 for the 180 out of the 7mm remington. The 300 wsm has way better barrel life. I would shoot the 300 wsm.

 

[shortpants]

You never sieze to amaze me LTLR. I asked my gunsmith 2 years ago if I should bring him my 300wsm and he could drop it in a better stock and accurize it. He said I would be better off letting him build a new rifle on a remmy action because he does not like the browning action. He did NOT tell me to go 7mm that was all me. So let me ask you and anyone else that has something to add, should I take my factory Browning A-Bolt II SS and invest in it or build from scratch of a remmy. Let's forget about the 7mm debate for a min and tell me what you think would be practical.
Back to square one! That's ok this is healthy!
Thanks again all,
Jason

 

[IdahoCTD]

I'd build from scratch off a Remington. There are way more accessories available for it and just about any gunsmith in North America is familiar with them. Plus your Browning should cover the cost of the action easily. Do it on a long action so you can seat the bullets out where they belong. Plus the same action will handle any of the other cases mentioned in case you change your mind again.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I agree 100%. You have a popular rifle that will bring a good price. I would sell it and then look at a custom or donor remington action. You can find anything aftermarket for a remington action and everyone is familiar with them. I will not even fool with a browning action because of the cheap metal used in them. I am always afraid I will crack the action in the vise screwing the barrel out. Get the longest action remington or a custom. By the time you buy the donor and pay to have the work done on it to accurize it the custom looks pretty good and will bring you more at resale. You are approaching this the right way and there are some good people on here that can advise you from making mistakes they may have made.

 

[Michael Eichele]

You never sieze to amaze me LTLR. I asked my gunsmith 2 years ago if I should bring him my 300wsm and he could drop it in a better stock and accurize it. He said I would be better off letting him build a new rifle on a remmy action because he does not like the browning action. He did NOT tell me to go 7mm that was all me. So let me ask you and anyone else that has something to add, should I take my factory Browning A-Bolt II SS and invest in it or build from scratch of a remmy. Let's forget about the 7mm debate for a min and tell me what you think would be practical.
Back to square one! That's ok this is healthy!
Thanks again all,
Jason

For a custom build using a 'factory' action, the 700 is as good as they get. The bolt and the action can easily be chucked in a lathe unlike many other factory actions. There are parts and accessories galore.

That said, by the time you get a 700 trued up, heavy recoil lug, upgrade the firing pin, etc......you can typically get a custom action for nearly the same price. Maybe a couple hundred bucks. In some cases, three+. The Bordens, Templar and Stillers are all competetive in price. Even against a dolled up 700.

+1 on the 300 over the 7mm. Better bbl life, bigger hole, higher BC bullets etc.....The downside is to get better ballistics over the 7mm, it takes heavier bullets which in turn offers more recoil. Everything comes at a price. No matter which direction you go.

M

 

[shortpants]

Michael what you just said is what started me down the 7mm road. In order to match ballistics with the 7mm the 300wsm has to shoot a minimum of 210's and the 30cal's are just starting to match the 7mm there. A 230gr. bullet would be much better to push the limits of a 300wsm which pushing the limits is always the goal! Since this build is going to be shot a lot I'd prefer as little recoil as possible while maintaining the level of performance a 7mm or 300wsm offers. I am open to going with the 300wsm for the reason you guys have stated. I definitely don't want any of you thinking that I think I know more than you or am just being stubborn (cuz I am very stubborn) but I do love a good debate because I tend to learn the most from them. My current 300wsm only kicks like a 243 but hops so bad I have trouble spotting shots. If I do spot shots I'm holding the front end down which is bad form. I'm only shooting 165's in it right now. I guess I fear if I built another one and shot heavy bullets I would have this same problem. On the other hand the custom will be just a bit heavier and hopefully be better balanced. If I could build a 300 wsm that sat still when fired at 10-11lbs field weight and shot great I'd have a winner. When I say sat still I just mean didn't jump the way my current rifle does so don't over think that comment. I love the sound of how the 280AI would handle but can't argue about the performance of the 300wsm. Hmmmm... Decisions, decisions!!! Ha ha!!!

 

[Broz]

My current 300wsm only kicks like a 243 but hops so bad I have trouble spotting shots. If I do spot shots I'm holding the front end down which is bad form. I'm only shooting 165's in it right now. I guess I fear if I built another one and shot heavy bullets I would have this same problem. !

This either the sign of a very light rifle or poor form.

Jeff

 

[Michael Eichele]

Well you could do what I am doing.....That is having two barrels. One to shoot alot and the other to hunt with. Switch barrel guns are easy to set up. I am using the 308 for practice and soon the 6.5x284 for coues, antelope and sheep all on the same platform (action, stock, scope etc...). Aside from energy, the 6.5x284 is ballistically equal to the 300Win mag with up to 208'-210s. The 308 offers incredible barrel life (if you dont abuse them), mild recoil, extreme accuracy, ease of tuning, efficiency etc...AND is a very effective long range deer killer in case your 6.5 barrel or 300WSM is out of commission. It can also double up as a mid range elk rifle need be. Then, when you go coues, antelope or sheep hunting, the 6.5 barrel can be installed in minutes, sighted in and you're ready to go. At coues, sheep and antelope altitudes and temps, you can hit the magic 1000'/# at 1000 yards with 1800'/sec. What more could you ask for?

Then you have your 300WSM for your LR elk. With the right bullet, can reach just under 1500'/# at 1K and 6500'/ASL.

Again, what more could you ask for?

M

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

With a muzzle brake on a ten pound rifle I don't think recoil would be a problem.

 

[Michael Eichele]

My current 300wsm only kicks like a 243 but hops so bad I have trouble spotting shots. If I do spot shots I'm holding the front end down which is bad form. I'm only shooting 165's in it right now. I guess I fear if I built another one and shot heavy bullets I would have this same problem.

If you are having this problem on the bench with a bi-pod, try snugging the upper most part of the butt of the stock into your shoulder instead of the center or bottom of the butt. This will help the rifle come straight back more than hop. Trust me, with a 338Edge that weighs 10#-4oz. running 300 grain pills between 2700-2800'/sec, I can honestly say I know all about the hop!!

M

 

[shortpants]

Hmmm... Somebody smell smoke? I think my brain is on fire! This switch barrel gun is a new concept to me but I know you have had success with it Michael. If I wanted the larger of the 2 to be 300wsm what would make a good 2nd cal. barrel (smaller cal. of course)? I could build the smaller one first and worry about the larger cal. barrel later. Do they have to be close in cartridge size or does that matter?

I guess this is why they call it a brainstorm!

 

[shortpants]

My current brake is ported all the way around. My next one will be side ported and maybe a few on top but no more bottom ports.