Saskhunter, semi-custom/custom rig can be built around any of the rounds I mentioned. As far as shok appeal that's up to you, if you go the custom route the skys the limit on what components you pick, heck you can even paint the stock, barrel...the whole gun in whatever you like. As far as the edge being so accurate and I'm assuming you been reading about here on LR. When you have smiths the likes of Kirby and Shawn building a custom rig...Well it doesn't get any better. However that's only one component and it's only going to be as good as what you load in it and you the shooter. So if you have an accurate rig and have the abilities that many (I don't put myself in this category) Edge shooter on LR have well=accuracy. Some of these guys are genious in my opinion on reloading abilities and their shooting skills-trigger control, ability to read wind, ballistics knowledge to mention a few are superb. Here's the kicker...throw all this together and any of those rounds IMHO would be very accurate...differences yes, could one of these shooters drop an elk in it's tracks at 500 yds w/338WM...you bet...at 1200yds probably not but with a 338AM a much better chance in the right hands. If you research enough starting here on LR you will find a wealth of knowledge on various post on these round particularly the wildcats and you'll start to get a feel for what may fit you. I have found most here on LR are more than willing to help. Good luck in your quest.
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which 338?
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Yes. But I would not recomend anything built on the this cartridge because of cost and
availability. If a shooter is "asking" what to buy/build then some wildcats are not the best
choice.
After owning a few reasonable wildcats (Those that are easy to form and load) then
a person can make an educated decision as to what caliber/cartridge to go with.
I have been shooting for over 50 years and was interested in the 416 Barret . But after
checking in to it I found That there was no brass available, no bullets available and the
only way to have ammo for a already expensive rifle was to purchase it from Barret (at
unbelievable prices) Over $10.00 a round making the 50 Browning a much better option.
The Barret is a proprietary cartridge and everything has to be purchased through them
including dies and anything else that you would need to reload.
The point is ; Why recomend something that has a high difficulty factor not to mention
the cost for the first custom long range rifle. In fact I would recomend a factory chambering
and in a custom package that would knock the socks off first time witnesses at the ranges.
This way the poster can have a rifle that will impress and perform with minimum problems.
Just my opinion for what it's worth.
J E CUSTOM
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B23
Well-Known Member
It comes down to making a choice between a factory chambering and a wildcat. Both have their good and bad.
IMO if you want something different and you are going to reload, the two best choices are 338AX and 338 Edge. Both Kirby and Shawn have put alot of time and expertise into developing these two chamberings and we the consumer get to benefit from it.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a "wildcat" that has and easier transition, from a factory round, than the 338 Allen Express or 338 Edge.
IMO if you want something different and you are going to reload, the two best choices are 338AX and 338 Edge. Both Kirby and Shawn have put alot of time and expertise into developing these two chamberings and we the consumer get to benefit from it.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a "wildcat" that has and easier transition, from a factory round, than the 338 Allen Express or 338 Edge.
J E Custom, for all the reasons you mentioned above I got to agree that's why I decided not to go with 338 Excaliber. Talk about expensive, just as an example the best price per Excaliber round is about $6 each plus a LD call & shipping, then there's Midway $7 each w/shipping and others can go as high as $14 each, IMHO-not readily available and then coal requires specialized action, magazine considerations unless you go w/A-Square rifle which starts at about $3500 which again appears to be nothing special about it. Just thought I'd throw this out there in case SASKHUNTER might have thought you were recommending Excaliber. I wouldn't recommend Excaliber or 338AM, too many others to choose from when starting out.
saskhunter
Member
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see my biggest problem is that i am located in canada. its hard to get anything across the border now. i have found a place in calgary, alberta. its only a 8hr drive for me but they have everything. the place is called Alberta Tactical Rifle supply. Acording to there website they carry nosler cases in 300rum and 338 edge. they also carry 338 lapua. so i guess those might be might choices then. ill talk to them i guess and see what they recomend
BH Hunter
Well-Known Member
Jeff,
The value of the Lapua brass far outweighs its cost in $. If one were doing a value engineering assessment, the Lapua would most probably come out on top due to the quality of the brass.
If one could get 2850 out of a RUM the brass wouldn't last 3 rounds until one broke out the finger nail polish and/or super glue to hold and seal the primer.
The next time I get a 270 cal Allen Mag,its gonnal be the 277 AM which is based on the Lapua case v.s. the Remmy RUM case.
I have never finger nail polished primers in. Do you find it necessary? I shoot a 300 RUM. I also get up to 10 reloads. What are the reasons for doing this?
Thanks,
Brad
saskhunter
Member
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- Nov 3, 2009
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- 21
thx for the help. ill keep updates on what i decide to build and how the build is coming.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Saskhunter, There are no majic bullets. You ask what makes the 338-300 ultramag so accurate. It is no more accurate than anything else. All mentioned are extremely accurate if done by a competent gunsmith. JEcustom makes a lot of sense. He has done this a long time like I have and experience makes all the difference.
You said your objective is shock appeal and being able to knock off elk at extreme range and want a custom rifle. Remember every bit of velocity you can get is very important because it reduces the most critical element of long range hunting which is wind drift. It is a variable that can never be predicted with 100% accuracy. If you want a custom and the best then everything off the ultramag case and the standard lapua falls short of your objective since you can easily beat them with velocity by going to another cartridge without any more expense to build or shoot. The next step would be the improved Lapua and then the 338-378 wby which would give you about all you can get before taking the next step up in expense. These two can get you over 3000 fps with the 300 grain matchking. Next step would be wildcats off the Chey-Tac or the excaliber JE said. But you are stepping up to quite a bit of expense to shoot. If you have the money they are the best. There are some blown out 338-378 and 338-416 rigby wildcats that can get 3-6 more grains of powder and maybe an insignificant velocity gain over the standard 338-378 wby but don't know that they are worth it over the benefits of a standard cartridge.
I have put velocities in here many times collected over many years shooting all the big 338's. Until you take that step up to the Chey-tac case there is just not a lot of difference but there is some. Remember each barrel can vary 100 fps easily. In other words my 338-300 ultramag might be 100 fps faster or slower than the next guys. But again here are the averages with 300 matchking. 338 ultramag and 338-300 ultramag 2725-2850 fps, 338 lapua 2775-2850 fps, 338 lapua imp and 338-378 wby 2950-3050 fps. All are accurate if the gunsmith knows what he is doing.
I have all of them and shoot them all regularly. If I want to shock an elk long range I always end up shooting my 338-378 wby pushing the 300 matchking over 3000 fps. Bottom line is I have been trying to beat the 338-378 wby for 30 years without going to a chey-tac or 50 BMG case and I haven't been able to do it. I have seen a lot of stuff come and go and some hung around awhile but the 338-378 wby is still top dawg if you want a big 338 on a standard rifle.
I did a test and put it in here for a guy once shooting all the big 338's from 340 wby to 338-378 wby with 250 grain bullets. This included the ultramags and lapuas in between these two. Powder range was from 86 grains to nearly 130 grains and from a fast 340 wby to a slow 338-378 wby there was less than 200 fps. All the others fell between these two. So you can see there is not a lot of difference. You just got to play the averages and hope you don't get a slow barrel.
You said your objective is shock appeal and being able to knock off elk at extreme range and want a custom rifle. Remember every bit of velocity you can get is very important because it reduces the most critical element of long range hunting which is wind drift. It is a variable that can never be predicted with 100% accuracy. If you want a custom and the best then everything off the ultramag case and the standard lapua falls short of your objective since you can easily beat them with velocity by going to another cartridge without any more expense to build or shoot. The next step would be the improved Lapua and then the 338-378 wby which would give you about all you can get before taking the next step up in expense. These two can get you over 3000 fps with the 300 grain matchking. Next step would be wildcats off the Chey-Tac or the excaliber JE said. But you are stepping up to quite a bit of expense to shoot. If you have the money they are the best. There are some blown out 338-378 and 338-416 rigby wildcats that can get 3-6 more grains of powder and maybe an insignificant velocity gain over the standard 338-378 wby but don't know that they are worth it over the benefits of a standard cartridge.
I have put velocities in here many times collected over many years shooting all the big 338's. Until you take that step up to the Chey-tac case there is just not a lot of difference but there is some. Remember each barrel can vary 100 fps easily. In other words my 338-300 ultramag might be 100 fps faster or slower than the next guys. But again here are the averages with 300 matchking. 338 ultramag and 338-300 ultramag 2725-2850 fps, 338 lapua 2775-2850 fps, 338 lapua imp and 338-378 wby 2950-3050 fps. All are accurate if the gunsmith knows what he is doing.
I have all of them and shoot them all regularly. If I want to shock an elk long range I always end up shooting my 338-378 wby pushing the 300 matchking over 3000 fps. Bottom line is I have been trying to beat the 338-378 wby for 30 years without going to a chey-tac or 50 BMG case and I haven't been able to do it. I have seen a lot of stuff come and go and some hung around awhile but the 338-378 wby is still top dawg if you want a big 338 on a standard rifle.
I did a test and put it in here for a guy once shooting all the big 338's from 340 wby to 338-378 wby with 250 grain bullets. This included the ultramags and lapuas in between these two. Powder range was from 86 grains to nearly 130 grains and from a fast 340 wby to a slow 338-378 wby there was less than 200 fps. All the others fell between these two. So you can see there is not a lot of difference. You just got to play the averages and hope you don't get a slow barrel.
saskhunter
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- 21
just a thought but i checked one of my local gun stores and found a 338/378 weatherby accumark mark v with a 28" barrel and accubrake for $2,199. would that be an alright platform to start my build with that action or would the gun be accurate enough of the shelf.
yama49
Well-Known Member
saskhunter,
I also live in canada,had a 338 edge built by mr Carlock. It was easy shipping it across with a broker for 75 bucks(dont recommend with out broker). I buy all my powder, bullets and nightforce scopes, off rick at alberta tactical. They are awesome to do deal with. As far as gun goes, i love my edge, shoots 300smk 10 shot average at 2818 93 h-1000 . jmo good luck
jmden
Well-Known Member
Some 'smiths don't like the fact that the Weatherby action has so many lugs--basically can't them all trued and bearing. Something to keep in mind. Might look at a BAT hunting action, Phoenix or Stiller Pred/Tac 338.
Keep in mind how long you many want your cartridge OAL when talking to these folks as your magazine length may dicate your OAL, especially with the very long .378 case. If you don't mind single feeding, then it's not problem. Some here go wtih the .338 Lap for that reason as it's much shorter than the 378 case and even the EDGE case and will allow magazine feeding (with the right magazine, such as the Seekins 3.9 DM system or the Wyatt's 4.010 box) when seated to max OAL lengths (bullet boatail/major diameter junction just barely above the case neck/shoulder junction) to max case capacity. Some folks don't care about maxing case capacity. Others do. Just for consideration. Opinions will vary.
Kevin Thomas
Well-Known Member
Brad,
I think Roy's being a bit faceteous here; if you're down to the point of supergluing the primers in to make them stay in the pocket, that brass is well and truly dead. Ditto for the comments on nail polish, although I have seen this used as a makeshift waterproofing material for ammo that might be used in extreme conditions. Seems to me there's a fellow out there somewhere marketing a nail polish like product specifically for this, but I've never used it.
Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA
I think Roy's being a bit faceteous here; if you're down to the point of supergluing the primers in to make them stay in the pocket, that brass is well and truly dead. Ditto for the comments on nail polish, although I have seen this used as a makeshift waterproofing material for ammo that might be used in extreme conditions. Seems to me there's a fellow out there somewhere marketing a nail polish like product specifically for this, but I've never used it.
Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
More anti Weatherby !
I hear this all the time and I can assure you there is nothing wrong with the weatherbys
except they can be used for most of the big cartriges that the Remington's and Winchesters
cant.
The bolt lugs are basically a big thread that has been interrupted ( Just like the 16" guns on
battle ships and most artillery pieces.
In fact they are the most accurately machined factory receiver on the market bar none.
I build a lot of rifles on the Mark 5 Weatherby action and the accuracy is great plus it has a
longer magazine than any other factory action and will handel much longer COL loads.
As to lapping the lugs it's actually easier because it starts out at 90% or better.
So if you want a Weatherby accumark in 338/378 go for it.
Sorry If it sounds like I own Weatherby stock (Wish I did) but I feel compelled to defend a
fine product.
J E CUSTOM
