Darryl has already given me some advice but I thought maybe the rest of you could offer an opinion. This spring I will be building a 338 caliber, heavy rifle for ultra long range hunting. My goal is to achieve a MINIMUM of 3,100 fps. with the 300 MK. I want to use a beltless case and do not want to fireform. As far as I know, this limits me to the 338 Ultra mag, 338 lapua, and 338 Excalibur. I know the Excalibur would give me the performance but it's an exotic and brass may be hard to come by. I am leaning towards the Lapua but want to make sure I could get the velocity without too much trouble. I will use a barrel of 36 to 38 inches long and a Hall action. Any input would be appreciated.
which .338??
- Thread starter PrimeTime
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I had similar discussions with DC ( the guys knows his **** doesn't he) Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't the 338 Lapua and 338 RUM just about the same thing???? I almost went with the 338 but later decided I didn't want the pounding. I had narrowed it down to the RUM because the brass will be cheaper and the the same performance as the lapua. It will only be a matter of time before better brass than rem. will be available.
No Fear in Accuracy
Well-Known Member
I believe 338 Lapua holds more powder than 338 RUM because 338 Lapua uses 416 Rigby case while 338 RUM uses .404 Jeffery case. Am I correct?
P.S. I don't think you can acheive 3100fps with 300gr MK,probably closer to 2900. Am I correct again?
P.S. I don't think you can acheive 3100fps with 300gr MK,probably closer to 2900. Am I correct again?
The Lapua is based on the 416 Rigby only shortened a bit. The Ultra is the 404 as you said. The Excalibur is a new case, .580 at the head and actually holds a bit more powder than the 378 Weatherby. I would be using a 36 to 38 inch barrel to hopefully obtain the velocity needed. I'm leaning towards the Lapua because of the quality of brass.
Thanks for the responses.
Anyone else have a thought?
Thanks for the responses.
Anyone else have a thought?
PT,
I own a 338 Lapua and have owned a 338RUM. Personnally I like the Lapua better, for the reason you stated of brass quality. Both cartidges are very accurate. You should be able to get the velocity you desire out of both rounds with the barrel length you stated. If Winchester or Federal would make 338 RUM brass, I probably will have another, but until then I'll stick with the Lapua. My two cents for what it's worth, hope this helps.
Jim
I own a 338 Lapua and have owned a 338RUM. Personnally I like the Lapua better, for the reason you stated of brass quality. Both cartidges are very accurate. You should be able to get the velocity you desire out of both rounds with the barrel length you stated. If Winchester or Federal would make 338 RUM brass, I probably will have another, but until then I'll stick with the Lapua. My two cents for what it's worth, hope this helps.
Jim
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Prime
Using the 338/416 Rigby Imp Case, I can get 3300 FPS with a 37" barrel and 122.5 grs of WC-872 powder, if I don't care about loading my brass more then 2X.
Slowing it down to 3100 to 3200 FPS (which is really all you need with that bullet) and the brass survives several loadings. 117.5 to 118.5 Grs works just fine and will repeat shot after shot and saves brass.
Any case with the powder capacity of 117 to 122 Grs of WC872 powder (like H870) of powder with a very slow burning rate, will get that speed when you use at least a 36 to 40" barrel and using the 300 gr Sierra MK.
I stay clear of powder such as 5010 (large stick powder) because of the barrel eating charteristics I have seen done to 30/378s using that stuff. I've seen barrels shot out (lands gone 6" up the barrel) after 600 rounds using it.
I know of two fellows shooting the 338/378 and 300 gr bullets with a 36" barrels maintaining 3155 FPS and I believe they are using RL25 in the one and WC872 in the other.
With barrels that long, it is not to hard to run the 300 gr bullet at 3100 FPS--Plus.
One fellow at Williamsport ran his with a 40" barrel to 3350 fps. and had no extraction problems what so ever. His was on the BAT action. I was there when he shot it over the Oehler Chronagraph and even raised the bolt on one of the fired cases to see if it was sticky at all. There were NO problems and it was about 75 degrees that day.
Same group of guys that got their elk at 2890 yards the year before with another 338/416 Rig. Imp.====You may know who I'm talking about. Beat the hell out of my 2100 yard elk shot that I had got two years before that.
My 338/416 Rigby IMP has the Hall "G" action, a Jewell trigger and a 37" K&P barrel. It has always worked fine for me.
Good luck in your project.
Darryl Cassel
Using the 338/416 Rigby Imp Case, I can get 3300 FPS with a 37" barrel and 122.5 grs of WC-872 powder, if I don't care about loading my brass more then 2X.
Slowing it down to 3100 to 3200 FPS (which is really all you need with that bullet) and the brass survives several loadings. 117.5 to 118.5 Grs works just fine and will repeat shot after shot and saves brass.
Any case with the powder capacity of 117 to 122 Grs of WC872 powder (like H870) of powder with a very slow burning rate, will get that speed when you use at least a 36 to 40" barrel and using the 300 gr Sierra MK.
I stay clear of powder such as 5010 (large stick powder) because of the barrel eating charteristics I have seen done to 30/378s using that stuff. I've seen barrels shot out (lands gone 6" up the barrel) after 600 rounds using it.
I know of two fellows shooting the 338/378 and 300 gr bullets with a 36" barrels maintaining 3155 FPS and I believe they are using RL25 in the one and WC872 in the other.
With barrels that long, it is not to hard to run the 300 gr bullet at 3100 FPS--Plus.
One fellow at Williamsport ran his with a 40" barrel to 3350 fps. and had no extraction problems what so ever. His was on the BAT action. I was there when he shot it over the Oehler Chronagraph and even raised the bolt on one of the fired cases to see if it was sticky at all. There were NO problems and it was about 75 degrees that day.
Same group of guys that got their elk at 2890 yards the year before with another 338/416 Rig. Imp.====You may know who I'm talking about. Beat the hell out of my 2100 yard elk shot that I had got two years before that.
My 338/416 Rigby IMP has the Hall "G" action, a Jewell trigger and a 37" K&P barrel. It has always worked fine for me.
Good luck in your project.
Darryl Cassel
No Fear in Accuracy
Well-Known Member
DC and 338 Lapua, you are both correct about the velocity that be reached at 3100. I guess I was thinking of 24-26 inch barrel. Gonna read carefully next time. I'll order a 30" or 32" barrel in 6-8 months. At that length, I would say it would give around 2900 to 3000? (with 300 MK). I'm a little worried about fitting it in the travel case. Something like Pelican 1750 Travel Vault. It's dimension is 50.75x13.5x5. Do you create homemade carrying case?
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Hello No Fear
There are cases available for some of the longer barrels.
Many standard cases are 52" in length which is fine for most rifles with a maximum barrel length of 30".
Many times we must make our own cases out of wood. Mine for the big 338/416 Rig. Imp looks like a mini coffin. Especially since the barrel is 37" long.
Some even have cut a barrel opening in the gun case to let the barrel stick out. They also must put a muzzle protector on to protect the crown.
Darryl Cassel
There are cases available for some of the longer barrels.
Many standard cases are 52" in length which is fine for most rifles with a maximum barrel length of 30".
Many times we must make our own cases out of wood. Mine for the big 338/416 Rig. Imp looks like a mini coffin. Especially since the barrel is 37" long.
Some even have cut a barrel opening in the gun case to let the barrel stick out. They also must put a muzzle protector on to protect the crown.
Darryl Cassel
Steve Shelp
Well-Known Member
PrimeTime,
I have a 338 Lapua Improved shooting a 32" Lilja barrel and I have gone over 3000fps easily. I maybe able to get 3050 or pushing 3100fps if I use the really slow powders. I use mine for accuracy only so I've never pushed it to see what it would do for speed. So keep that in mind. My case holds 120.6gr of H2O and a standard Lapua case holds 113gr and runs neck and neck with the 338 RUM. So if your shooting for 3100fps and using a standard Lapua or RUM case, you may be really stretching it in a 30-32" barrel lengths IMO. Now if you have a standard 338 Lapua with a 30-32" barrel and "only get 2900fps".... you still have a very potent long range rig and it's not the end of the world. Now if you stretch that barrel like Darryl has in the upper 30" range then 3100fps and maybe a little more could be easily obtainable with standard cases without any fireforming.
I would go with the Lapua myself due to the quality brass also. I measure all of my brass used in competition (Lapua and Norma brand) and I've never seen Remington brass even come close to holding a candle to the numbers these cases spin and weight in at. Now how much accuracy is the "better" cases worth.... that's an age old question that can't really be answered. So take that as you will. As for the Lazzeroni brass... of the few peices I've held in my hand (read very few!!) they didn't measure that great for wall thickness. It's my understanding that Bell Labs makes the Lazzeroni brass and I've seen some of the 404 Jeffery brass from Bell and it was junk to say the least. The walls varied in the .005-.007" and not the < .001" to .0000" like the Lapua and Norma 338 Lapua brass.
Just some thoughts,
Steve
I have a 338 Lapua Improved shooting a 32" Lilja barrel and I have gone over 3000fps easily. I maybe able to get 3050 or pushing 3100fps if I use the really slow powders. I use mine for accuracy only so I've never pushed it to see what it would do for speed. So keep that in mind. My case holds 120.6gr of H2O and a standard Lapua case holds 113gr and runs neck and neck with the 338 RUM. So if your shooting for 3100fps and using a standard Lapua or RUM case, you may be really stretching it in a 30-32" barrel lengths IMO. Now if you have a standard 338 Lapua with a 30-32" barrel and "only get 2900fps".... you still have a very potent long range rig and it's not the end of the world. Now if you stretch that barrel like Darryl has in the upper 30" range then 3100fps and maybe a little more could be easily obtainable with standard cases without any fireforming.
I would go with the Lapua myself due to the quality brass also. I measure all of my brass used in competition (Lapua and Norma brand) and I've never seen Remington brass even come close to holding a candle to the numbers these cases spin and weight in at. Now how much accuracy is the "better" cases worth.... that's an age old question that can't really be answered. So take that as you will. As for the Lazzeroni brass... of the few peices I've held in my hand (read very few!!) they didn't measure that great for wall thickness. It's my understanding that Bell Labs makes the Lazzeroni brass and I've seen some of the 404 Jeffery brass from Bell and it was junk to say the least. The walls varied in the .005-.007" and not the < .001" to .0000" like the Lapua and Norma 338 Lapua brass.
Just some thoughts,
Steve
kidcoltoutlaw
Well-Known Member
for Darryl Cassel and long gun cases
McMillan Bros Rifle i got one for my 50bmg and it 60 inches long they can tell you who made it's from wa indians made it .cant spell it if i could rember it.i dont have the case with me right now.kaspil or something like that,thanks,keith
McMillan Bros Rifle i got one for my 50bmg and it 60 inches long they can tell you who made it's from wa indians made it .cant spell it if i could rember it.i dont have the case with me right now.kaspil or something like that,thanks,keith
