Which .338 should I have built?

[chris matthews]

I have built about 100 or more Lapuas on the 700, so I am pretty sure it will handle it- Remington did it way back and they are doing some again for the military......

lv2hunt, drop me an email...I am sure we can get you something built like you are looking for.......
Not to take away from Shawn and the edge, but the Lapua is still king of the 338s....good brass....factory ammo...no fireforming or custom dies needed.....

 

[lv2hunt]

Thanks Chris, I sent you an e-mail.

 

[Mysticplayer]

Since you didn't detail, let me ask these questions for you to consider.

how portable do you need this rifle to be? Walk around with it or just out of the truck and good to go?

Will you use a muzzle brake?

How much hunting will you REALLY do beyond 750yds? Be honest, this is your hunting spot. Only you know the answer to this.

How windy is the valley?

Will you need a quick follow up shot?

How much of your budget are you willing to invest in support optics? This stuff ain't cheap, well could be...

There is little doubt that the 338 in just about any cartridge is a boomer. By answering the above, you will quickly narrow down your choices. I hunt under similar conditions and don't use a 338 because I don't need to.

Ballistically, 250 to 300gr bullets are you best bet. But unless you get them over 2800fps, at range, wind can buck them around. In a mountain valley, I suspect updrafts and crosswinds are common and sudden. So now we are talking faster like 3000 to 3200fps. That's a very big cannon.

Consider that all you really need is a heavy for cal bullet from 7mm to 338 to do this job.

Personally, with wind being a constant enemy, I would go for the fastest cartridge to launch a suitable bullet. Any bullet in the 162/175gr and up arriving at 2200fps and faster is plenty lethal for your intended target and range.

I would look at a fast 7mm with a hot RM as a min, better a STW or a RUM if you can handle a 28"+ barrel. Launch 162gr AMax as a min, 175 to 180 better, some of Wildcat super heavies as an insurance policy.

Wind drift will be less then a slow 338 or a fast 225/250gr bullet. Impact energy is more then sufficient (my loads arrive at 1000yds with over 1800ft/lbs but more importantly, over 2400fps).

Next up, the 30 cal with heavies. 300WM is a marginal min. 300Wby and 200gr accubonds is nice. A RUM going faster is nicer (220gr MK or 210gr Bergers would do the job nicely). Recoil at this level without a muzzle brake or a very heavy rifle is stout. Certainly way to much for you to spot your own hits.

Are you hunting with a spotter?

The 338 are boomers but create their own series of problem. I don't like LR hunting with any rig that will not allow me to spot my hits at distance. With or without a spotter, being able to see the hit confirms what I do next way quicker.

When I hunt, the rig has to also function in the way I am going to move about or not. 36" barreled 35lbs cannons don't make for portable rigs. Gentle to shoot monster bullets.

Since it sounds like a single shot is not out of the question, I would keep the action you have and rebarrel. Odds are a standard length fat boy like the Dakota family will work just fine if you do need a repeater. Again, a 7 or 30cal are ideal.

Inside 1000yds, a cannon is nice but unless you can go fast enough wind will limit your range.

Jerry

 

[lv2hunt]

Jerry,

Thanks for all of the information, I apoligize for not elaborating on my needs of this rifle a little more; please allow me to clarify.

You Asked:

Q: How portable do I need this rifle to be?
A: This rifle will primarily be setup on a portable shooting bench, approx. 1 mile from the nearest road; my shooting bench sets on a ridgetop at almost 5,000 feet in altitude. However, with this being said I would like portability if needed, I dont want a bench only rifle. Also, this rifle must only weigh in at 15.5 lbs when completed and topped with a scope, Idaho state rules.

Q: Will I use a muzzle break?
A: Yes, I would like to use a Vais style muzzle break or similar.

Q: How much hunting will you REALLY do beyond 750yds?
A: About a third of the animals I see are past the 750 yard mark.

Q: How windy is the valley?
A: Generally light 5 to 15mph, gusts as much at 30 mph at times though.

Q: Will you need a quick follow up shot?
A: Yes, almost always follow up with a second shot.

Q: How much budgeted for optics?
A: I would like to stay around 1,000 dollars for the scope.

Q: Will I have a spotter?
A: Sometimes yes, most times no.

Jerry I hope these answers help, I appreciate your input.

Concerning the 7mm Remington Ultra Mag. route are you shure this would pack enough punch at this yardage, I am just getting into hand loading and would probably be purchasing the majority of my ammunition over the counter.

If you think this is the way to go my local gun shop actually has a used Remington 700 7mm RUM Sendaro. Would this be a good base to build a custom rifle on?

Please let me know, I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you,
Lv2hunt

 

[Kevin Cram]

I've been following your project and couldn't help but interject. If you planning on shooting long range it is NOT a good idea to be shooting with no spotter, especially with a lighter weight rifle. Upon recoil you rifle will jump of target and you will probably never get to see where you hit. That is why it is almost imperative to have a spotter. Also you would probably be better off going with a .30 cal with 240's for the distances you plan on shooting. A 300 wthby or a .308 baer with 240's will still have enough energy to effectively kill out to a max range of about 1200 yards. A .30-.378 will be able to stretch even a little farther. This does all depend on length of barrel though. Good luck!

 

[lv2hunt]

Montour Rifles,

Points well taken thank you, I will definitley be using a spotter when available; and your right anything under a .30 caliber is just too small for me to be comfortable with.

Everyone,
After reviewing an overwhelming amount of information on this site, I have narrowed my search down to three different rifles from which to choose; please give me your thoughts.

1st choice) .338 Lapua on a 700 action.
2nd choice) Shawn's .338 Edge.
3rd choice) Accurized and re-barreled .338 RUM

All of these would be bedded into an A-5 Mcmillan stock and must not weigh more than 15.5 lbs fully dressed.

If you have any information or comments good or bad on these three rifle choices please let me know.

Thank you,
Lv2hunt

 

[lv2hunt]

Hello,

So I spoke with Shawn today concerning his .338 EDGE, what a great guy. I have now narrowed my choices down to two .338 rifles of which to build.

1st choice) The .338 EDGE, Remington 700 action.
2nd choice) The .338 Lapua, Remington 700 action.

Please let me know which route you would take if it were you.
Thank you,
Brandon
lv2hunt

 

[Wild_Bill]

I am getting the parts togethor and am building a 338-300AI the only reason for an AI is i have a reamer available i think you would be best to go with a 338 Edge. On the brass issue i have run the 375RUM cases over a Junke machine and they were verry consistant as good as Lapua so i dont see a problem. I will be just necking down 375RUM brass in one pass through a 338RUM die and they form perfectly and you have less work hardening than necking up 300RUM cases. Hope it helps.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[wildcat]

Iv2hunt, I would go with Remington action and the 338 Lupa Magnum. The A-5 stock is a great choice, you will love it if you go that rout. If you can, go with a 338 Lupa Magnum Improved. Good luck with your project!

 

[lv2hunt]

Thanks guys, I will be going to a gunshow this weekend to search for a remington 700 donor rifle or action for this project. I am assuming any long action will work? Is there a certain "better" 700 action that I should be on the look out for, or are they all pretty much the same.

Thank you,
lv2hunt

 

[Guest]

Idealy you should find a RUM action... less work for the smith I believe.

I'd do the 338 Lapua... very good brass.. no fire forming.
Brass is expensive yes... but will last a long time.

call Chris and see what he thinks ... he's done a bunch of LM's on remmy's...

 

[Fiftydriver]

Lv2hunt,

I have been watching this thread for awhile and have not made any recommendations simply because it was going basically the same direction I would recommend.

I do want to however talk about the 338 Edge a bit even though I am positive Shawn gave you the complete low down on his round.

Basically it is getting a pretty hard rap on this post. Well, better said, the 338 Lapua is getting made out to be a VASTLY superior design for several reasons and I do not nessesarily agree with all of them.

It has been said that the 338 Lapua case is vastly stronger then the RUM. That may be true as far as looking at the case itself is concerned but the strength of a case is overwhelmingly dependent on the dimensions of the chamber. If you have a loose chamber and you load the 338 Lapua hot you will loosen primer pockets just as fast as the RUM brass.

Conversely, if you have a very quality tight speced chamber for either the Lapua or the Edge, you will be able to hit 65,000-68,000 psi with no problem at all and long case life with both rounds.

So for case live, its more dependant on chamber then brass used in the final result.

As far as brass quality, yes I will give the Lapua its fair comings and say that for out of the box brass, the Lapua hulls are superior. That said, with a little bench time you can turn the Rem RUM cases into extremely consistant lots of brass that will run toe to toe with the Lapua cases. Just more time involved.

It has been said that another advantage of the 338 Lapua is the fact that there is no fireforming needed compared to the 338 Edge. If I am not mistaken, the 338 Edge is the 338-300 RUM with a name change for safety issues. There is no more fireforming needed with this round then there is with Lapua rounds.

The 338 Edge can be cold formed. Which means you run a 300 RUM case throught the 338 Edge Full Length die which I would assume Shawn recommend the Redding with its tapered expander which makes this neck up process so easy its hard to believe its actually necking the neck up. And your done. Trim to length and your ready to roll with full tilt loads from the start, no major case transformation needed.

I am also pretty sure the dies would be pretty easy to get through Shawn for the 338 Edge. As a side note, I have actually used the 338 RUM dies to load for the 338-300 RUM with great results but I would recommend getting 338 Edge dies from Shawn if you have a rifle built.

With both rounds to get top accuracy you will fireform the case and then go from there. I do not know to many extreme range shooters that when the time comes for serious shooting use virgin cases????? May just be me.

There is no advantage with either design as far as ballisstic performance goes, they are ballistic twins. If you use the Lapua Imp you get a bit more but not much.

This post was not to promote or detract from either round. Only to state that some of the reasons for using the Lapua over the Edge are not as significant as many would lead you to believe.

The end result, hitting the target at whatever range you choose has much more to do with the rifle then what round you are putting in the magazine box to be honest.

Another thing to remember comparing the 338 Lapua to the 338 Edge. IF you want a repeating rifle, the Lapua based on the Rem 700 will require an H-S Precision Detachable magazine system which will add from $220 to $250 to the finished rifle price compared to the Edge which can use the factory RUM mag box and BDL floorplate.

For extreme accuracy I actually prefer to use the RUM mag box in an ADL stock with this level of recoil it greatly stiffens the stock.

Either way you look at it both are great rounds. The 338 Lapua is the established round but it will depend on the rifle as to which would actually perform better. I know from the rifles I have built in both chamberings (338-300 RUM) They have both been very impressive.

Just my two cents worth.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Shawn Carlock]

Brandon,

Kirby is 100% on with his info on the EDGE. If brass quality is an issue the Federal brass is very good. I also agree that the rifle will make or break the day not so much the round it is chambered in. I have built several Lapua mags on 700's also. The EDGE holds 1 more round and is a fair amount cheaper to work with both in building the rifle and reloading. I can not tell a lick worth of difference between the rounds for accuracy and in terms of capacity the edge has just slightly more case capacity. I have noticed with similar barrels, length bullet etc that the EDGE will have 30-60 fps on the Lapua, but I say even at that they are practical equils. I believe there is no bad choise for you to make. They are simply 2 good rounds to choose from.

 

[Guest]

Actually I have been thinking on this as well.

Kirby know his stuff obviously and knows quite a little more than I do.

However, I was informed that a good action to use would be an LA on a 30-06 caliber Bolt face for example.

What else has me thinking is this... and I'll just be blunt and honest...

You seen relatively new to this game and I am not sure how much experience you have with LR shooting, reloading etc. I know you mentioned that you ahve a budget... my personal opinion is a 338 anything isn't really a budget rifle .. if you neck up anything you run into the probobilitycase necks splitting etc. etc. the Lapua Brass itself will cost over $100 for 100 pieces. they both burn large amounts of powder and they both kill on one end and wound on the other... if ya know what I mean. The stock and barrel will run you around $900-$1000 right from the top.

1000 yard and beyond hunting is easily accomplished with many 30 cal rifles out there.

a 300WM and a 300RUM can be made to suit your needs quite easily if you run 220's or 240 gr bullets you should be fine...
There are also alot of 7mm's out there that can handle the job as well.

I am shooting a 300WM and running 200 gr accubonds at 2930 fps and have more than enough for 1K hunting. I have a 7mmWSM that I wouldn't hessitate to take a deer at 1000 yards with if the opportunity presented itself...

I'm not really trying to talk you out of it just trying to get you to realize that the 338 isn't necessarily the best caliber to get your feet wet with in 1000 yards shooting/hunting.