Where to level?!

[TBell]

This whole **** thing is round. It seems semi flat where the level is in the picture. Or right behind the action where the bolt handle goes it looks semi flat. How do I level this thing?!

Old fashion way always works. Hang a Plum-bob with a bright string on a calm day. If that alines with your vertical cross hairs and it shows level, itis.

all of the other stuff gets you close and sometimes right on.

Was a field engineer at one time, in my younger years, and had to shoot level lines for all other trades on site, with very expensive equipment. Was prove wrong once or twice by a old mason with 100' of water-hose.

"Just cant argue with truth"

.

 

[Mikecr]

The 'flat iron' may provide a plumb raceway I suppose. What are you gonna do with that much?

Of all the parts in this chain, each having it's own independent skew potential, which part, when plumb itself, will allow the shooting of a plumb line down range?

 

[ntsqd]

Right now I'm working with a combo of action and rail where, per my Test Indicator, the flat top of the rail slopes .015" down to the right (within the width of the rails' top flat) relative to the bolt raceways in the action. It is bad enough that you can see it with bare, naked eyeballs. Even mine. I am inclined to believe that the action is more at fault than the rail is.

I made a plate similar to one suggestion in this thread that lays on the bolt raceways. I surface ground both sides of the plate so I'm reasonably sure that they are flat and parallel enough within what is needed for this effort. It has two bolts that reach down to a purpose made V-block and that assembly clamps the action in place for mill operations.

I can likely duplicate this plate for the OP, less the useless to him bolt holes, if that is determined to be desired.

Have yet to decide on my own corrective course of action. There's a part of me that wants to put the action on a mandrel and machine it truly round. At least in the zone where the rail makes contact with it. If only my rotary table had a tail-stock......

 

[TBell]

if i read your post right, you miss under stood my post. You don't shoot the plumb line, you simply compare it to the vertical reticle line of the scope, after you have the receive leveled.

Anyone can compare the vertical reticle to a plumb line if they cant the rifle enough and hold the receiver un level. But not if they level the receiver too.

 

[azarcher10x]

I have some small replacement bubble levels that I'll check the action in relation to the rails. I put one level across the bolt raceways, and one in a groove on the rail and compare. I've found very few that disagreed. I'll lock it down level in the vise, and level the scope, while aiming at a vertical 4' level approximately 20 yards away. Since I'm already set up at 20 yards, I'll do a quick bore sight at the same time.

 

[Alibiiv]

Old fashion way always works. Hang a Plum-bob with a bright string on a calm day. If that alines with your vertical cross hairs and it shows level, itis.

all of the other stuff gets you close and sometimes right on.

Was a field engineer at one time, in my younger years, and had to shoot level lines for all other trades on site, with very expensive equipment. Was prove wrong once or twice by a old mason with 100' of water-hose.

"Just cant argue with truth"

.

I'm questioning this process, don't want to start a fight here........... I agree with the plumb bob for setting the vertical cross hair; however, can we exaggerate this a bit. To make this process work, doesn't the centerline of both the scope and of the bore have to be vertical with each other before aligning the vertical cross hair in the scope? If the two centerlines are not level with each other and the vertical crosshair is then aligned with the plumb bob line when an adjustment is made it will not be in alignment with the bore; and....the longer the distance being shot the further out the adjustment will be. Hope this all makes sense?????

 

[azarcher10x]

I'm questioning this process, don't want to start a fight here........... I agree with the plumb bob for setting the vertical cross hair; however, can we exaggerate this a bit. To make this process work, doesn't the centerline of both the scope and of the bore have to be vertical with each other before aligning the vertical cross hair in the scope? If the two centerlines are not level with each other and the vertical crosshair is then aligned with the plumb bob line when an adjustment is made it will not be in alignment with the bore; and....the longer the distance being shot the further out the adjustment will be. Hope this all makes sense?????

Different scenario. Yes, if the bore and scope aren't in the same plane, then it's an issue. We were just talking level.

 

[TBell]

I'm questioning this process, don't want to start a fight here........... I agree with the plumb bob for setting the vertical cross hair; however, can we exaggerate this a bit. To make this process work, doesn't the centerline of both the scope and of the bore have to be vertical with each other before aligning the vertical cross hair in the scope? If the two centerlines are not level with each other and the vertical crosshair is then aligned with the plumb bob line when an adjustment is made it will not be in alignment with the bore; and....the longer the distance being shot the further out the adjustment will be. Hope this all makes sense?????

Yes read second thread

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I'm questioning this process, don't want to start a fight here........... I agree with the plumb bob for setting the vertical cross hair; however, can we exaggerate this a bit. To make this process work, doesn't the centerline of both the scope and of the bore have to be vertical with each other before aligning the vertical cross hair in the scope? If the two centerlines are not level with each other and the vertical crosshair is then aligned with the plumb bob line when an adjustment is made it will not be in alignment with the bore; and....the longer the distance being shot the further out the adjustment will be. Hope this all makes sense?????

I'm in total agreement with ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But ............... when I use the EXD, and use a flat across the raceways, and use a level on the receiver or a bottom ring half, none of them agree! The EXD seems to be the right idea in concept but it's so cheaply made that I wonder about its accuracy.

The other day I pulled the scope off a custom rifle that has a custom action and Talley LW rings. When putting the scope back on I placed a wheeler level on the bottom half of the front ring and leveled the rifle. Just for the heck of it I moved the level to the bottom half of the rear ring. It was NOTICEABLY off!

It's very hard to determine when the action is really level IMO.

 

[JustMe2]

Think about why you are "leveling" your scope? It's so when you hold over the target, it does not affect windage and yardage at distances in excess of say about 300-500 yards (depending on target size).

So, think of an upside down tennis racket. The round part is the barrel and the handle sticking up is the scope ring height above the barrel. Now place your scope on top of the handle. Now rotate the racket left or right 45 degrees and then run your finger up and down the handle and see how it doesn't follow a line straight up and down over the round (barrel) of the racket. This is how your reticle/holdover will move if your scope isn't mounted directly over the barrel and center of the ring height (level).

So your goal is to align your reticle with BOTH the center of the ring height and the barrel's center bore (not top of barrel). If not aligned to BOTH, the bullet will move off target when holding over or dialing up.

If you tilt the rifle to fit on your shoulder or cheek and then rotate only the scope reticle to be straight up and down, your dialing or holdover will be wrong in both windage and elevation. Your ballistic calculations will not match your scope dialing and you will wonder why. The higher the rings (racket handle), the more exaggerated the error.

I hope this exaggerated barrel-ring-reticle alignment example helps you understand what you are "leveling". You are really aligning 3 items and not leveling, you are using a level as an instrument to align. This is what a tall test does. A Tall Test is another instrument that aligns all 3 things for the purpose of dialing up or holdover.

 

[ntsqd]

I don't think that it difficult to tell when an action is level. The difficulty is in deciding where to start. For my own purposes I have decided that the bolt raceways are my zero point. Those get leveled, and then everything else is made to be parallel or perpendicular them them.

Others may use some other starting point, whatever works.

All of that only gets things parallel/perpendicular to each other. The tall target test and/or the plumb-bob test are needed to confirm that there is no lateral shift as well. If I stopped at just everything level there is nothing that says that the rail and rings haven't moved the centerline of the scope .05" to the right of the centerline of the bore. Which would make the effort involved in all being level a waste of time.

 

[Radman]

This whole **** thing is round. It seems semi flat where the level is in the picture. Or right behind the action where the bolt handle goes it looks semi flat. How do I level this thing?!

I eyeball mine in a gun rest. No level. What matters is where YOU hold the rifle when YOU shoot. That's where the reticle needs to be leveled. (JMO Works for me. Possibly more applicable to active hunters than benchrest shooters)

 

[skipglo]

That spot on the back of the action or across the ring bases.

Wheeler barrel level! Attaches over the end of barrel

 

[skipglo]