What learned over time building AR's

budlight

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
1,727
Location
Nevada
I think that the biggest thing is DON'T cheap out. You instead of building something that you can own for a life time end up with some garbage that you are never going to be happy with.

My first original piece of junk was using someones advice about watching for sales on Palmetto State Arms. An M-16 looking thing 1:7 20 inch that would throw 55 or less grain bullets sideways through the paper. I own a nice chronograph and 55's were coming out of the barrel at 3200. So I downloaded the rounds clear down to 16 inch barrel velocities of about 2750 fps and the thing could group or if I shot 69 - 75 grain bullets it could group. Which totally defeats the cheap 55 grain fmj plinking gun. So I just gave it to the guy that help me build it.

I knew that I wanted to get away from anything m-16 looking and away from mil spec triggers. I polished and changed the spring in mil spec and you can improve them to a certain extent, but drop in triggers are the best.

So I went out searching for the best Stainless barrels 18 and 20 inch because of the free velocity. It really makes a difference when you are going to pop some ground squirrel out there 200 - 300 yards often on windy days. 16 inch barrels from my chrono time with the exact same shells were often down by 300+ fps with my hand loads. Slower powders like CFE223 , Leverrevolution, power pro 2000-mr, ramshot big game, and h414 are biased for longer barrels. I only shoot 55 -75 grain bullets. If you feel the need to exceed 75 grain you should be buying a Valkyrie. the 223 case is NOT made for longer bullets. I won't use crap like h335 because its so dirty burning. I rather fill the case with slower powder. All my barrels are Wylde and even some 5.56. It's harder to find NON end threaded barrels, but for pure competition they are worth it. Brakes just add length and are very loud. So what if it removes 40% of the already minimal recoil. It makes for fun shooting. I do have some of those thread caps. So I have both a 20 and 24 inch with 11 degree target crowns non threaded.

All my BCG's are the best heavy full auto in nickle boron and I later went to chrome. Because nickle boron does discolor with lots of use. I wore out a few bcg cam pins even the nice chrome ones and went to roller cam pins. I always fill the cam pin area with mil spec rifle grease and always keep thing wet with light weight oil. A well oiled AR15 is a happy rifle. I don't care about the mess when you wipe them down after use. It keeps the carbon from building up inside the BCG like heavy shooting days at a three gun match! :)

The modern M-lok hand guards with the big barrel nuts are best. Forged upper slick sided are so nice and get rid of the problematic dust guard and worthless forward assist. Yes, I was 300 miles from home shooting hundred upon hundred of rounds and the dust guard clip came out and was flopping around until I just pulled it off. If a round doesn't feed and it's jammed in pounding on the forward assist is dumb and won't solve the problem. Use a small flat blade screw driver and carefully pry the bolt back through the ejection port.

For lowers Anderson made these forged with integral trigger gaurd. The best for shooting in cold weather with gloves for fat fingers :)

Rifle length or even + 2 inch gas tubes are the best. lower pressure slamming into your BCG. One test facility showed something like 30,000 psi from carbine length gas port, 22,000 from mid length and clear down to 14,000 psi on a rifle length. I don't have adjustable gas blocks on any of my gas guns. All you need is a micro gas block for your barrel diameter. I run the full auto heavy bolts which slows the rearward motion and just use light buffer weights with quiet flat wound springs to dial in my ejection with my hand loaded hot rodded rounds compared to off the shelf junk.

I like the Hoag grips and stock kits. I buy both comercial and mill spec 7075 six position buffer tubes or solid stocks for competition and have messed with the end hole diameter to not get the air compression shock when the BCG comes back. I have buffer weight faces that look brand new after thousand of rounds. Where carbine length gas guns just beat the crud out of the buffer weights. The buffer weight have to be hevier in the carbine to eject correctly and with the extra PSI just get slammed.

Then you need the enhanced pull down pins or even better these D Ring rear pull down pins. Ambidextrous safety is nice. Forged slick sidded upper are a must For less weight and mechanical problems. I bought the grinding kit to true the uppers to the barrels and I polish the feed ramps before assembly. You don't want to put a ding in the bullet or a scape feeding in and end up with a flyer round. I actually run a 22 call bore snake covered with chrome wheel polish up and down the barrel like 100+ times to eliminate barrel break in per say. It just makes the inside of the SS barrels beautiful. It's like no one thing is going to make a AR more accurate, but it's the combination of hours of TLC that add up to a lifetime of pleasure.


feed ramps.jpg


Enhanced charging handles are nice along with 2.5 pound straight triggers

20240410_073536.jpg


20240410_073459.jpg



20240321_071144.jpg
 
Last edited:
My 1st build was with aero precision parts (well some parts). 18" 6.5creed, handguard and gas block from AP, the rest was a dpms $400 gun bought for this build. 1st AR anything build for me and was hooked on them ever since. Faxon was some of the worst barrels I've ever bought and was worse than a Rosco (which was pretty good 7t 20" 223wylde). 1 of the worst high dollar barrel I've bought is a proof. The most accurate barrels I've bought are cbi in 6.5creed and m118 chambers. What 1 calls quality, another calls cheap regardless of cost. I try and buy on sales what I can even if it means waiting months down the road for what I want. Ordering custom can be between 3 months to 6 (from my experience). Carbon fiber, Ti, magnesium and other light weight parts add up in a hurry. I have a goal of building a 20" 308win @ 5# and under. So far it's @ 5# 4.97ozs (not sure about getting the 4.97ozs off). 16" build can make under 5# easy and 18" is close, but trying for a 20" at that weight. With a fixed 5x optic w/drops, wind and range built in will keep it under 6# easy (2-4ozs less). Finding brands that work for you is easy to stay with as I've found out.
 
When I bought parts I did shop around for all forged 7075 to get the best price. I have lots of different barrels. Back around the 2000's lot's of online sellers. My first m-16 looking barrel was also chrome lined.

What has kept me from buying all kinds of AR calibers is that I already have quality bolt guns. You know why buy a 6mm ARC or some varient when you alrady have a varmintor 26 inch 243's. Bolt rifles with nice triggers are very accurate.

You would not like my Texas pig gun, heavy 20 inch 308. Right at 12 pounds with a full clip and nearly 4 pound 6X32 power 60 mm objective. Just uppers and lowers are heavy. I don't know how you could lighten yours any more. I had a friend recontour a barrel on a lathe.

So this without the heavy scope and clip is more like 8 pounds. This rifle can shoot small groups at 200 yards and my farvorite pig round is the Speer 125 grain HP TNT. They just DRT hogs! chronoed at just over 3000 fps using AR-comp or TAC. My 24 inch non threaded is always about 200 fps faster.

20240410_112959.jpg
 
Last edited:
When I bought parts I did shop around for all forged 7075 to get the best price.

You may want to be careful there. We recently tested a bunch of AR-15 parts sold as 7075 with an XRF Spectrometer, and they were actually 6061. Hence the cheap price. I imagine the sellers don't plan on you having a $20,000+ metal analyzer on hand.

Tony
 
Last edited:
Bling! The straight fluted SS barrel is 20 inches the spiral is 18. I spent hours on a buffer wheel polishing them after I first went over them with the regular steel wire 8 inch wheel. Then i spend a couple of hours with the bore snake and posishing out the locking lugs, feed ramps, and chamber.

Just something fun to do in the shop with a cold beer before you even think about assembly.

Slick sided or the heavy worthless attachments.

I forgot to say when I talked about things that I had learned post. I always bought heavy full auto bolts coated with something like nickle boron or chrome because they slow the cyclic rate, less friction, and are easier on parts, but I wore out the cam pins. I shoot thousands of rounds. so I did a online search about what to do to make friction even less and make the cam pins last. I put both types of these cam pins in all my ar's.

POF-USA Roller Cam Pin or Hydra-Fire Roller Cam Pins are really nice!

2barG2.jpg



2barg.jpg
 
You may want to be careful there. We recently tested a bunch of AR-15 parts sold as 7075 with an XRF Spectrometer, and they were actually 6061. Hence the cheap price. I imagine the sellers don't plan on you having a $20,000+ metal analyzer on hand.

Tony
Makes you wonder who you can believe! I do know that 7075 stuff is really hard to even drill or machine. I had to buy special bits for my verticle mill to mod things. My 308 upper and lower weren't quite right. I built all my stuff long ago and each of my ar 15 rifles are about $1000 to $1200 in just parts without optics. Who knows what it would cost now?

I have never bought blems! A buddy tried to save money on a 7075 upper and lower. The trigger mounting holes were off side to side as were the upper pull down pin hole on the front. It took some time jigging them up on a mill and going to the larger pin drop in trigger. Not even worth the few bucks he saved on blems.
 
Last edited:
AR's require a progressive reloader to be able to pump out hundreds of rounds per hour. I personnally have a dillion and several single stages all set up for individual jobs. I used to buy one shot Lake city brass by the 1000 round bags. At a typical meet I have picked up a couple of 5 gallon buckets full from their 55 gallon drums of empties.

The first thing is triming to length. I have found that Wylde chambers have no problems with over 1.77. So I do a trim length of 1.76 for just a little more bullet hold and allow for some growth without having to worry about triming or checking all the time. I also inside champher for ease of incerting the bullet without scraping it.

Step 2. Next is the decapping & sizing die. Lee has the best decaping sizing pin. I got so tired of replacing RCBS pins. Any case that has red around the primer just throw it away. The mil spec or what ever glued in primers are going to bend pins.

Step 3. I gave up on phoney media tumblers. it's hard to shake the crap out of most cases and it leaves everything dusty on the inside. I bought the Thumblers Tumbler wet steel pin media. about 250 cases per load, a big shot of dish soap and a tea spoon of lemon shine dish washer powder. Tumble for about 3 hours, drain, and wash them off. They will look brand new and completly resizing oil free. Summer I air dry in the sun for a couple of days. Rainey days I have used a food dehydrator. Bright hot southwest sun is the best!

Step 3.5 I forgot about the swagging step. You can't put a primer in most once shot brass. The primer pocket needs a swagging. The best swagger is the Dillion product that is about $100. I mounted it on a 4X6 block and place it in my bench vice. Then just stand there swaging away

Step 4. Sorting. All the manufactures have different case water volumes. So I sort by manufacture first. Then like my lake city has different volumes on differnt years. So you sort down to year stamp into lots and then for pure competition even water pipet measure so all the cases are exactly the same. It's a bit much for most people, but how can you even sight in a rifle if you have bullets of different impact points. So I sight in a rifle with one lot of maybe a two thousand rounds all the same. If you change anything the impact point changes. So I write on the ammo boxes what rifle is sighted in with this round and everything about the round.

Step 5. I hand prime everything. I have a lee, RCBS, and I found Forrester heavy duty to be the best most consistant seating depth and ease of Feed from the tray. Sit in front of the TV and pump out a 1000 in the evening. That way all the progressive is doing is dumping powder, bullet feed seating, and minor crimp. Filling the feed tubes is a PITA, hand priming goes fast. Put a couple hundred primers in the tray and go to town! :) It's a lot of man hours to go from a 1000 once shot to the finished ready to go product. I use a brass catcher on my rifles and don't pick up anything to get mixed in to my finished stuff

Previously I did bench rest time with a chrono using a lead sled for sighting in. I have tried probably over 10 powders and 4 primer types and zeroed in on one combo that works for a given bullet grain. Keep good notes on everything. Back in the day when 8 pounds of powder was only $140 and can do about 2000 rounds I would buy 6 pack of 8 pounders to save on the hazmat fee. or 10,000 primers for $135, and bulk bullets under were 8 cents when you bought by the 5000 or 10,000 lots. They are easy to go through when you might be shooting 500 a day at meet or squirel hunting. I'm so glad that I bought big numbers of 55 - 75 grain bullets back in the day. My buddy ask me if I wanted 5000 69 grain match bullets the other day because he isn't ever going shoot all his. I don't need them even for free! :)

Yes, I do annealing. It's just not imperative like rounds with 2-4 times the amount of powder. I don't think that I've ever had a cracked neck. Also I have so many crap goes in the brass bucket like anything with a red around the primer
 
Last edited:
Not always.
If I'm feeding a precision AR, I'll probably be using a different reloading method.
Everyone has their own idea of how the build, care and feeding of their AR should be.
So how would you produce 1500 rounds for a three day shooting event? So what is your solution to reloading 200+ rounds per hour? Match grade rounds are sold every day that were produced by machines. I understand that everybody has an opinion. Like the poster above that was for some odd reason jumped on the defence of military m-16. But I've also met people that love VW's.


Early on when I first got my dillion I was dumping and weighing like ever 10th round. When they were always the same week after week I began to trust the dillion. I'm not saying that other progressives aren't good.

I have my RCBS electronic powder measure that really sped up single stage reloading for larger cases over individually weighing every powder round. I found that under 6 mm having funnels that feed the powder, even ball powder becomes problematic.

I also bought the RCBS total case prep machine. It's for mass production triming, champhoring, and inside and outside neck truing/turning.

I still stand by any oil or case lube or dry media from tumbler does effect long range shooting. I've owned two 1000 yard comptetition rifles. So the Wet soap media is vastly superior. Gone are the days of powder sticking in the case neck from left over lube and making a mess when you lift the funnel off. It's very bad IMO that people without trying something can call it bad. Very sad to live the life of a sheep! If someone shows me something better than what I'm doing or what I'm using I jump on it. I work on racing cars and it's an ever evolving technology. A winning car is not competetive in two years. It's a place for free thinking people that think outside the box and willing to learn from others. Some people will never listen to wise council. Even went presented with facts and figures they stand by how their father and grandfather did things. I hear it all the time about how to build race engines. I don't even talk or correct them when they tell me they are doing this or that with cam lobe event timing or head flow. Why is my car the race winner and you are below mid pack because of faulty 30 year old thinking.

Another 1500 freshly resized then washed is almost depressing doing the trimming! :)

RCB2762.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'm a believer in good scopes. I did this target at 200 yards with my .243. I print my own targets from online. This scope is a 8-32 power 60mm with 1/8th inch clicks at 100 yards so the clicks become 1/4 at 200. The rifle must have been previously sighted in with some lighter gr fast varmint bullet like the 87 gr tnt because these 105 match bullets hit lower on the paper first shot down by the 8. I wanted to play with the scope so I clicked up one and it did move up a 1/4 inch and I corrected my aim point. I move around on the paper I'm not steady like I was in the military at sniper school at 21 years old. :LOL Then I clicked up and right fired and just added a bunch of clicks right to see what was going to happen and then just continued click up and left to walk it right in to zero.

That is the beauty of 32 power I can see the hole appear on the paper after each shot with out having to move to some spotting scope. .243 9 1/8 twist 26 inch jeweled trigger, and custom brake

243 2660.jpg


Inside and outside neck trueing really makes a difference. Preping 243 cases made from mil spec 308 lake city brass

RCBS machine.jpg
 
Last edited:
Safety wiring the scope mounting nuts so they don't come loose far from home. Using a laser range finder I got a perfect DRT at 428 yards antelope. The buck was walking away from us and not visible to the naked eye because of the background. I told my friend that the next time it turns sideways I'm going to fire... and it dissappeared from sight. I told him exactly where the bullet hit and it di when we walked up to it 100 gr spbt

243Brake.jpg
 
Last edited:
Great info. I am far from experienced at this so reading good info helps. I have only built 2 uppers so far and 1 was a PSA kit. It actually shoots quite well I think for a $400 kit, but isn't the coolest high speed AR. It shoots straight and with 77gr can repeatedly Crack steel size chest targets at 500yrds. Love it or hate it, it runs. I was at thr range a few months ago with a guy who built a super nice high speed AR with all the cool parts and it wouldn't run. Even though it was 6x the price it wasn't useful because it didn't run.

I am working on getting a nicer 556 upper built for my son right now and we are going to make his plinking and general use upper. Hopefully it will suit him well when we finish it.

We also built a 6mm ARC upper for my older son which is quickly becoming one of my favorites rifles to shoot.
 

Recent Posts

Top