What do you use to level the reticle?

[fiftybmg]

It is difficult to see if a correction is necessary at 1000 yds since there are so many variables. Might be chalking up a discrepancy to wind, mirage, spin drift, coriolis, etc when it is actually cant.

I'm still far from playing confidently at 1000 yards, but creeping there slowly.

 

[338 dude]

You dont care if the rifle is level, you care that the reticle is perpendicular to the bore. Levelling the rifle or levelling the scope does not ensure scope alignment to bore. Both have to be aligned relative to each other.

You dont care if the rifle is level, you care that the reticle is perpendicular to the bore. Levelling the rifle or levelling the scope does not ensure scope alignment to bore. Both have to be aligned relative to each other.

 

[338 dude]

You dont care if the rifle is level, you care that the reticle is perpendicular to the bore. Levelling the rifle or levelling the scope does not ensure scope alignment to bore. Both have to be aligned relative to each other.

Alright guys see if y'all can help with this. I used a small flashlight taped to the bore, a 3/16" nylon braid as a plumb bob and a light in the objective to get it to all shine. One thing I noticed is there was a little refraction if you moved the light left to right in the objective you could make the reticle float around on the wall (it only done it left to right, would not up or down). I tried my best to keep it centered by eyeballing it with the barrel. So I got the bore aligned to the plumb bob and the reticle aligned to the plumb bob as well, at 20' it was about 1/8"-1/4" off the plumb bob but very true to parallel. Here is the monkey wrench, when I got done I wanted to see how true the gun felt and how the wheeler action level tool looked, the gun felt canted and the wheeler level was all the way to the side (completely out of the level lines). When I leveled it out with the wheeler it was off the plumb bob about +1.5" up top & -1.5" at the bottom. Incase its asked the action is a Defiance Deviant and the scope is a Nightforce. The turrets were just about perfectly leveled to the reticle as well, I know some folks question that philosophy so thought I'd pass it on.

With the wheeler level system you are still eyeballing it with mine at least the bubble is not as wide as the lines so you have to judge whether it is in the center or not I like this new little tool that goes between your rail in the bottom of the scope and keeps in parallel to the action with no eyeballing or guessing

 

[338 dude]

Correct, the level tools work of the action, so how do you know the action is true to the bore line?

Perform a tall target test no matter what method you use to verify level

 

[338 dude]

I really like Barrelnut's tool.
I am going to get one of those.
Here is a video of using the tool I bought from amazon.There are others that show how fool proof (I'm serious) this tool is but I'll just list one:

Old Rooster

Different version of the one I use I agree they work great and actually keep your scope from twisting as you tighten down the caps

 

[fiftybmg]

I've looked at the Arisaka and Wheeler systems, and it could be that I'm missing something. I cannot see how these levelling systems make sure the vertical reticle line points to bore center.

Arisaka sets the bottom of the scope level to the rail. That's all you've done, made the scope bottom level to the rail, if your scope bottom is flat, and if you have a rail.

The Wheeler assumes the flat surfaces on your rifle are level to something. That one is too complicated for me to understand.

Levelling a scope on a rifle, and levelling a scope to a rail are two completely different things.

Do any of these devices prove that the vertical reticle line bisects bore center ? That'll be the one I'm interested in.

The EXD Engineering tool takes the bore into account, but still needs one light and a plumbline to check vertical, so if I were to pick a gadget this would be it.

 

[338 dude]

I've looked at the Arisaka and Wheeler systems, and it could be that I'm missing something. I cannot see how these levelling systems make sure the vertical reticle line points to bore center.

Arisaka sets the bottom of the scope level to the rail. That's all you've done, made the scope bottom level to the rail, if your scope bottom is flat, and if you have a rail.

The Wheeler assumes the flat surfaces on your rifle are level to something. That one is too complicated for me to understand.

Levelling a scope on a rifle, and levelling a scope to a rail are two completely different things.

Do any of these devices prove that the vertical reticle line bisects bore center ? That'll be the one I'm interested in, otherwise I would move straight to the tall target test and forget the gadgets.

The devices don't prove anything they merely set it up the tall target test will be your proof

 

[LDHunter]

The devices don't prove anything they merely set it up the tall target test will be your proof

PRECISELY!!! It doesn't matter how many times we say it over and over and over ad nauseam they keep not getting the point that there currently is NO TOOL that can accomplish this other than a plumb bob or something similar.

It's like one of the most closely guarded secrets in long range accuracy and it's been revealed and ignored over and over for years and years.

I think we're wasting our time guys... Let 'em keep trying and failing and maybe just maybe one day they'll start listening. Or NOT!!!

 

[Mram10us]

We were playing around at 1302 a couple days ago and it really shows the importance of two things. A leveled reticle, shown by a ttt and verification of elevation correction factor. There is 9" of drift for 1mph of crosswind at that range. You'll never get a wind call right without a ttt. Dead horse is officially beaten

 

[Mram10us]

When doing the tall test target you must still hold the rifle consistently plumb by using some reference method. A reference point on the rifle would seem to make more sense than an adjustable bubble device on your scope tube.
Using the raceway as a reference is common but is it an accurate method? What about 3 lug rifles?
It seems to me that the only accurate method would be to perfectly plumb the centerline of the scope over the centerline of the bore. The double V tool for doing this makes sense but it appears to be a cheaply made device and, IME, contradicts what is plumb by using other accepted methods.

The reference method is simply lining up the reticle with the vertical line you drew on the 100yd target. The level is already matched up to the reticle via the plumb bob from mounting.

 

[Old Rooster]

I have the Wheeler Professional leveling system and agree it is not perfect.I moved scopes in 2017 and on one rifle I was off by almost 1 inch at 100 yards,no need to do a ttt.I moved the scope and verified it with a ttt.
The biggest problem with a plumb bob line is you have to be able to see it and I can't,old eyes.That little Arisaka tool did the trick for me.
Look up the Panhandle Precision on youtube web site.He proved that the top turret was not a stable place to put a level.He used one and leveled it but when he turned the turret the level was off,no matter where he used the level on the turret it still moved on a nightforce scope.So that stopped me from using another Wheeler scope leveling system,the level level system but he said no matter the make of the scope the bottom of the scope is the most consistently stable place to level a scope.
With help from this site and that little Arisaka tool I am better at getting a level scope and since 2014 I have been using the ttt to verify it.
I just got that little Arisaka tool but have been using the ttt to verify level since 2014.
Have a great Sunday folks.
Old Rooster

 

[KY_Windage]

The biggest problem with a plumb bob line is you have to be able to see it and I can't,old eyes.

Sure you can.

I use my plumb-bob two ways, and it is easy to see both times. First, I use it to make sure the little bullseyes on my tall target are exactly vertical. I am standing there adjusting my target, with the plumb line hanging there 2 feet away, across my target. When the bullseyes line up perfectly with the plumb line, I know I am ready to do the TTT.

Second, I hang the plumb-bob on the side of my target frame, so that I can see it through my scope while I am shooting the TTT, in order to make sure I keep my reticle exactly vertical during the test. I use a piece of dark-brown cord on my home-made plumb-bob, which shows up great against a light-colored background. I have a piece of white chalk I use to paint a few white patches on the dark plumb line, in case the background is dark. Regardless of the background, my plumb-line is easy to see, in my scope, while I am shooting the little bullseyes.

That is all there is to it. Easy-pezy. Dirt-cheap. Gets you dead-nut perfect.

But, you can always wait for a flat-calm day and shoot at 800 yards and see whether you impacts are still where your crosshair is pointing.

The gadgets will get you close and occasionally they will get you perfect out of sheer luck. However, I certainly would not trust one to get me perfect at 800 yards. And I want to be perfect at 800 yards. Then I just need to focus on what the wind is doing. That is enough of a challenge as it is.

 

[Old Rooster]

Ky Windage I can do that.2 feet is doable.
The example I watched was with the lights dimmed and a flashlight was used to project an image on the wall and I just lost sight of the plumb line completely but 2 feet is doable.
I am not a 800 yard shooter yet but my goal is to get there by the end of this year.This is NOT a cheap journey but I'm heading in the right direction.Thanks for your help.
Old Rooster

 

[Grizzhunt]

I never really used to care about leveling anything, I would shoulder my rifle and make the scope match where I wanted it be. I recently bought the level level level from wheeler. It honestly kinda a *** but it gets it pretty close. I seem to hit what I'm shooting at more than I miss. I don't run a level on my scope tho so maybe that's why.