What do you think is WRONG with my bench shooting?? Group?

[adam]

I've had good success off a bench using my bipod in the stowed position sitting on a bag. Feels like it's on rails. Seems more consistent for me, eliminating the random hop you can sometimes get when everything between the rifle and bench is too hard.
As mentioned cheek weld and LOP is also very important. If it's not quite right you search a bit sitting at the bench because it changes your geometry. Especially if you don't like the position....I know I'd rather shoot off the ground

 

[Radman]

Good advice by all. I especially like what Ingwe said. I TRY to never support the far end by the barrel and, (forgive me all), but every stainless Barrel I have ever owned always crawled to the right as your pics depict. (May be a heating issue) a good friend of mine had the exact same problem and I was able to watch him and tell him that it was simply nothing more than finger placement on his trigger. Just my feedback. Many here who are smarter and more experienced than I.

 

[emp1953]

Rem 700 26" 1:8 #4 contour barrel. It's a remage with a Criterion barrel. Had it blueprinted and stocked by Manners with a mini-chassis too.

Scope? Are the cross hairs level on the rifle. Out of level cross hairs are perceived to be worse when parallax error is thrown into the mix. Makes you "unconsciously" tilt the rifle more to bring the crosshairs back level.

 

[Shortywy]

Could possibly be something as simple as finger placement. When it is snowing & blowing, I practice dry fire at a sheet of paper with as small a dot as I can see. I have noticed that when I get complacent & just go through the motions my follow through ends up at 8 or 9 o'clock on the paper because I don't have my finger deep enough on or in the trigger. I shoot right handed.

 

[emp1953]

Here's something that bit me in the butt several years back. I probably tried to get too many reloads out of my brass (not the case any more). Out of a stock Rem700 in 30-06 I'd get a goofy result somewhat like yours with enough regularity to cause quite an investigation among members at the local shooting range. What we eventually found was that neck tension was way down in some of rounds allowing bullets to jump forward slightly changing my .020 setback from the rifling to change to .012 or less. I had put 4 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber and took the first shot. Dead center. Then someone else jumped in with some "precision" ammo so I dumped the magazine and loaded up with his ammo, took four shots, no errant outliers. Then I started looking at the ammo standing in front of me and they looked like they were different lengths. I carry my dial micrometer in my range bag and made the discovery. Bullets were jumping forward during recoil. Now I reload the same case maybe 2 or three times. I never did load hot loads. No more errant outliers. As stupidly simple as that. It doesn't seem possible that there could be so many variables, but there are.

 

[richhymas]

If you have a friend who is a good shot from the bench you could let them shoot to see if they see the same pattern. It's helpful to rule out one variable at s time. If multiple shooters are seeing the same pattern then it's not the shooter. It's the gun or the bullets.

 

[richhymas]

With high recoil guns, shoulder pressure, setup, etc. are important. So is bedding of the rifle. You could be right on the edge of the accuracy node. Try shooting 5 consecutive bullets at 5 separate targets to see which bullet in the sequence is the flier. As the barrel heats up that could be the issue. Or I have even seen that the first shot or two are off but as I keep shooting The gun finds a temperature equilibrium.

 

[Yeager]

I'll start by saying that I do not like shooting off the bench. When I do I use a front rest and rear sandbag.

Whenever I shoot off the bench for a group, I usually ALWAYS, for a 3 shot group, touch 2 rounds then throw one an inch away. When it's a 5 shot group, I will touch 2 or 3 then throw 2 away an inch away, just like I do with a 3 shot group. I wanted to try to find a pattern as to what I am doing wrong, so what I thought to do was to superimpose the old targets that I had saved onto one of my 1" targets dots. I then drew a small circle (17cal sized ) into the center of each bullet hole. I hope that you can envision what I am talking about?

So look at the picture that I attached...it is 50 shots superimposed onto 1 one inch target dot. My rifle is a 7mmRemMag. The grouping that you see pictured is a bit deceptive, because they are not 7mm sized. Initially, I traced the 7mm bullet hole, but when I did, the orange dot is barely visible and the misses are all clustered together making it hard to see the exact point of impact. The smaller dots show better where the individual bullets impacted on the target.

As you can see, 15 of the 50 shots are outside of the dot but 35 are in or touching the dot.

Of my total misses, it seems that I cluster my misses at 3 o'clock, 5 o'clock, and a few at 2 o'clock.

I would like to hear your thoughts on what I'm doing wrong...I THINK that I am varying the amount of pressure that I put on my cheek-piece as well as NOT following through on my trigger pull....maybe even subconsciously looking up when gun fired to see my impact?

Oh, and I'm LEFT-HANDED too.

I would love to hear what you guys think...gotta give me some credit for posting a bunch of misses right? LOL. I know...we NEVER miss! Me neither

PS: the attached 5 shot group is typical of what I get....I can NEVER touch my whole group or even put them all in the dot!

In the last few years there have been placed on u-tube a small number of newer videos that demonstrate "current thoughts" on how to improve one's ability to shoot from a bench. You might wish to check them out and you may find your questions answered. Example, Gunwerks have two that helped me: however, there are other good videos available. Surprising to me, how little changes can make such a big difference in performance. Good luck!

 

[MarshMello]

Try a dot drill as well. It will take some of the mental aspect/pressure out of trying to get those 3-5 rounds touching. There are so many things that can affect groups, just trying to take one variable out of the mix.

 

[762x51]

i have the same sort of problem with my groups occasionally on my 700 in 308. i'll have 4 rounds touching and then the last shot throws an inch up and to the right. i just assumed the barrel was heating up or i was starting to anticipate recoil after 4 shots.

 

[Radman]

Could be either, neither or both as you know. I realize that nearly all barrels crawl, to some extent, but what is weird is I noticed a long time ago that on my stainless barrels all of them always curl up to the right like they're forming a question mark. I rarely have this problem anymore, after my first shot, since I really began letting my barrels cool.
It may sound dumb but this is why I have always advised people who hunt to zero for that first shot and for target shooters to zero after the first shot. In my experiences there is a distinct difference. It makes sense that a hunter needs to be on the money with his/her first (cold) shot.

 

[GonzoK34]

My profile:
73 years old, 5 years USMC, 3 Tours Vietnam, Boot Camp M14 Rifle Expert 480 score - a perfect score is 500. Marine Infantry and Recon. My Dad and Uncles served in WWII, Korea. They experienced the lost of friends and survived. I learned from them. Those lessons carried me through combat. I spent 4 years in Law Enforcement and decided that construction was a better fit.
My take:
Snipers Military- SM Area Shooters
In combat the goal is to make center mass hits. What's even better you have on call air support, Artillery, Mortars and all kinds of cool **** at your disposal.
Law Enforcement Snipers- LES Precision Shooters
Close Distance is their friend- Under 100yds Better- 50 and less. They have ZERO Margin of Error. Screw up and everyone above you wants a piece of your 6. Law Suits and possible jail time.
Hunters of Game We should practice like the LES
Bad hits mean long tracking sessions and potentially lost game. Even worse you can break a leg, suffer a heart attack, who knows what. I have had to track wounded deer and elk friends have shot. Luck has been on our side in 85% of those situations. But the recovery and pack out has ALWAYS been Brutal.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR BENCH SHOOTING
Where do any of us start? Looking at your targets it could be numerous issues.
Before we look at whats wrong with your shooting we need to consider how your rifle and scope are setup. Whether your shooting factory or reloaded ammo. There have been several questions to those concerns presented here.

My Advice
At the range place a 6 inch target at 100 yards.
Get into a sitting position and get your rifle ready in a solid position. Crank the scope power all the way up to it's highest power. Focus on your CROSSHAIR the reticle, NOT the target it should be a BLUR. Now place the center tip of your shooting finger on the TOE of the Trigger (The tip or bottom of the trigger). Take several deep breaths this fills your lungs and gets mass amounts of oxygen to your brain. Follow up with a couple of deep breaths and on the 3rd inhalation let 50% out you've just reach a monetary pause. Now squeeze the trigger straight back. Maintain your position and follow through maintaining focus on the target. Dry Fire at least 5-10 times.
If you completed this correctly your reticle SHOULD have stayed on target and your POA/POI. If NOT you need to realize this is the primary issue you need to correct before you go any further.
SEMPER FIDELIS
Bob Gonzales

 

[Mram10us]

It is hard to tell without being there or seeing you on video. Ask one of the guys on the range without a creedmoor to watch you

 

[Bob Wright]

If those sub- groups are consistently at the end of a shot string, I think you should look at flinches or fundamentals. My barrel gets a little warm on my 7 mag after 3 rounds, so I rest it, and myself as it stovepipe cools. I assume your ammo is good stuff and rifle is capable here. Try another rifle and see if your issue repeats itself.
You can load some dummy rounds up and have a friend mix some duds into the mag and see if you're pulling shots somewhere. It's always fun when your buddy watches you flinch, and calls you out on it. Haha....