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What dies should I buy?
- Thread starter VanJansenburgh
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Mc Fraser
Well-Known Member
For my 270 i use Lee dies and I have the seating stem custom made by Lee. You can also drill it, same results. Inside 400yds work great.
I vote for Redding. Great quality, great technical service, and great customer service when you get a case stuck when you are getting started.
bigedp51
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Below is a cutaway photo of a Lee full length die and the locking collet holds and centers the expander. And if you do not have runout gauges, neck thickness gauges, etc. the simple and lower cost Lee die will make very concentric ammo. With other type dies like RCBS it is possible to lock the expander down off center and induce neck runout.
Meaning for the average reloader who hunts and does not shoot in competition the Lee die is a very good choice.
coyotemaster
Well-Known Member
While neck sizing dies and.neck turning have their place I have consistently found 1/2" accuracy is routinely obtainable with standard FL sizing dies with high.quality barrels. The best dies available will not make up for a ho-hum barrel.
There are work arounds to achieve consistent neck tension and I do believe it's essential as tension.increases with each resizing. Annealing is not a.dark art and.achieves the desired neck tension and increases.case life due to reinstalling split necks.
There are work arounds to achieve consistent neck tension and I do believe it's essential as tension.increases with each resizing. Annealing is not a.dark art and.achieves the desired neck tension and increases.case life due to reinstalling split necks.
buster2765
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- 246
+1 for forster
bigedp51
Well-Known Member
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Below is a link to the USAMU and how they reload, for their matches they use new Lake City brass. And these new cases are full length resized with a die that has a expander and they use Hornady One Shot to lube the cases. And as you can see below they tell you to make sure the insides of the case neck are lubed.
Bottom line, they are using new cases using a standard full length die with a expander in their M16/AR15 type rifles. And the military considers ammunition with .003 or less bullet runout to be match grade ammo.
Slick Tricks: Techniques and Tools for Big-Batch Case Lubrication
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ues-and-tools-for-big-batch-case-lubrication/
Below why a Forster full length die produces less neck runout. The neck of the die holds and centers the case neck when the expander enters the case neck. And this prevents the floating expander from pulling the neck off center and inducing runout.
Bottom line, they are using new cases using a standard full length die with a expander in their M16/AR15 type rifles. And the military considers ammunition with .003 or less bullet runout to be match grade ammo.
Slick Tricks: Techniques and Tools for Big-Batch Case Lubrication
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ues-and-tools-for-big-batch-case-lubrication/
Below why a Forster full length die produces less neck runout. The neck of the die holds and centers the case neck when the expander enters the case neck. And this prevents the floating expander from pulling the neck off center and inducing runout.
I've done Partial resizing my whole reloading career, BUT I know that partial sizing leaves a slight taper in the neck because you are not putting the expanded neck all the way up into the die so it is not being fully re-formed, but even that may be difficult to measure and may only be realized in neck tension. And, as long as you know what you are doing and know what you want to achieve it is okay. Partial sizing is very close to full length sizing, sometimes only hundredths of an inch depending on how close your chamber is compared to the die, both should be within SAAMI specs, but your chamber and dies may be dead on or at opposite ends of the allowable tolerances. ALL that really matters is the performance on paper. You probably need a match chamber, and the chamber needs to be dead nuts concentric to the barrel to realize the greatest benefits. I'd say the very most important thing is having cases that are concentric with uniform case necks where the centerline of the neck bore is in line with the center of the case rim, THEN YOU need to be able to shoot tiny groups without wind and you need to hold the gun exactly the same, same forearm pressure same shoulder hold pressure, same forearm point of support, etc. When you shoot off a bench with a front rest you should expect the POI and the group size to change when you shoot off a bipod and the group will probably open up a bit... or a lot!.
How good is good? Well, shooting amazing 1/4" groups is not even close to shooting world record benchrest groups under .10 inches. I have several factory rifles that shoot factory ammo into the .25 inch range when I do my part. This is lucky, but it ain't in the .10s. So, it depends on what results you want, expect or are satisfied with to determine how much effort you want to put into the reloading process. My theory of why factory ammo and guns and even full length sizing works so well a lot of the times is ... when the case is loose or sloppy in the chamber, as the ignition process occurs, the case starts expanding and the bullet starts moving forward. The bullet finds its center in the bore and that is all that matters. Like kicking a football, it is the moment of impact and the angle imparted which will determine the flight path. That is why seating depth is so important. Try partial sizing with the bullet .005 .010 and .015 inches off the lands. I shoot 4 rounds at each seating depth. I try to get maximum velocity and accuracy so I start with the bullet I want to make work, then choose a powder that SHOULD give the highest velocity, usually best accuracy is achieved slightly below max velocity, but not always. I have a 300 Win Mag that loves 72 gr of 4350 with old 180 gr Hornady interlock hunting bullets! I have two 243's that shoot 1/4" groups with factory Hornadry 58 gr V-maxes at 4100 fps and a 3rd 243 sporter that shoots them into sub 3/8" groups at just under 4000 with a 22" bbl. and that same 243 sporter shoots Fiocchi 100 gr deer ammo into sub 1/2" groups. Go figure.
BOTTOM LINE, it iis all about eliminating variables. If you are reloading 20, 40, 100 rounds already you may as well do everything you can to be consistent. Major case prep only has to be done once and you can get 5, 10 or maybe 15 reloads out of the brass depending on the cartridge and pressures. The tighter the case in the chamber, the less brass flow you'll have and the cases will last longer and that may be enough benefit for partial or neck sizing...
How good is good? Well, shooting amazing 1/4" groups is not even close to shooting world record benchrest groups under .10 inches. I have several factory rifles that shoot factory ammo into the .25 inch range when I do my part. This is lucky, but it ain't in the .10s. So, it depends on what results you want, expect or are satisfied with to determine how much effort you want to put into the reloading process. My theory of why factory ammo and guns and even full length sizing works so well a lot of the times is ... when the case is loose or sloppy in the chamber, as the ignition process occurs, the case starts expanding and the bullet starts moving forward. The bullet finds its center in the bore and that is all that matters. Like kicking a football, it is the moment of impact and the angle imparted which will determine the flight path. That is why seating depth is so important. Try partial sizing with the bullet .005 .010 and .015 inches off the lands. I shoot 4 rounds at each seating depth. I try to get maximum velocity and accuracy so I start with the bullet I want to make work, then choose a powder that SHOULD give the highest velocity, usually best accuracy is achieved slightly below max velocity, but not always. I have a 300 Win Mag that loves 72 gr of 4350 with old 180 gr Hornady interlock hunting bullets! I have two 243's that shoot 1/4" groups with factory Hornadry 58 gr V-maxes at 4100 fps and a 3rd 243 sporter that shoots them into sub 3/8" groups at just under 4000 with a 22" bbl. and that same 243 sporter shoots Fiocchi 100 gr deer ammo into sub 1/2" groups. Go figure.
BOTTOM LINE, it iis all about eliminating variables. If you are reloading 20, 40, 100 rounds already you may as well do everything you can to be consistent. Major case prep only has to be done once and you can get 5, 10 or maybe 15 reloads out of the brass depending on the cartridge and pressures. The tighter the case in the chamber, the less brass flow you'll have and the cases will last longer and that may be enough benefit for partial or neck sizing...
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freddiej
Well-Known Member
I have been loading on my own for nearly 42 years, and I recently turned 50. Yes, dad started me off a little earlier than some. I can not remember a time in my life that I did not help my father load. My first memories are of cleaning guns with him at the reloading bench when I was 2-ish in the garage of the first house I can remember. My father was an RCBS fan and I followed suit when I started loading my own calibers. My first set of dies was an RCBS full length dies set for my 270 Win. I went on to find that Hornady/Frontier had very good dies. The bulk of my dies are New Dimension Hornady dies. I also have other brands and styles of dies due to sales, need, and specific use. The problem I see with every die manufacturer out there is I have yet to find a small base 30 carbine die set. Specifically for the Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine. I own 2 of them and reloads do not fit well.
I own RCBS well because the ones I have work well and they are carbide.
I own one Lyman neck sizing die because my first 500 rounds of 22-250 were nickeled and Lyman made a carbide neck die. It's stellar if you want to know. I also own a couple of Lyman die sets.
I own Redding from standard to S-type, I do not like the S-type. For some reason no matter what I do the necks always come out flared. I have tried most everything but the necks will never come out straight.
Which brings us to my nemesis.. Lee. The worst dies on the market. Rough all over, ill conceived, cheaply made, and they could not be any worse if you tried. I have friends that swear by them, I keep swearing at them. So I do not own any Lee dies anymore.
Now we come to the best dies I have ever used.. Dillon. Well made, well thought out, well designed, and nearly all of their dies come in carbide. If they came in all my calibers, I would only own Dillon dies. That is the only thing I can say bad about Dillon dies, they are not made in all my calibers.
I own RCBS well because the ones I have work well and they are carbide.
I own one Lyman neck sizing die because my first 500 rounds of 22-250 were nickeled and Lyman made a carbide neck die. It's stellar if you want to know. I also own a couple of Lyman die sets.
I own Redding from standard to S-type, I do not like the S-type. For some reason no matter what I do the necks always come out flared. I have tried most everything but the necks will never come out straight.
Which brings us to my nemesis.. Lee. The worst dies on the market. Rough all over, ill conceived, cheaply made, and they could not be any worse if you tried. I have friends that swear by them, I keep swearing at them. So I do not own any Lee dies anymore.
Now we come to the best dies I have ever used.. Dillon. Well made, well thought out, well designed, and nearly all of their dies come in carbide. If they came in all my calibers, I would only own Dillon dies. That is the only thing I can say bad about Dillon dies, they are not made in all my calibers.
I had bushing dies but have since sold them and gone to regular old Hornady and a separate mandrel. Accuracy is still very good for me, imo.
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Just started using the mandrels and my MOA improved.
VanJansenburgh
Active Member
Im sorry, now Im getting a little confused due to my lack of experience in reloading. Let me ask for some clarification. I was under the impression that neck sizing is the best for accuracy and case longevity, if you are loading for only one rifle. True?
But what I am hearing is that I should be using a FL resizing die to support the neck during the expanding process.
If feel there is something I missing and it has to do with bumping the shoulder .02" , could someone explain this to me? Shouldn't the neck resizing die support the neck during expansion?
But what I am hearing is that I should be using a FL resizing die to support the neck during the expanding process.
If feel there is something I missing and it has to do with bumping the shoulder .02" , could someone explain this to me? Shouldn't the neck resizing die support the neck during expansion?
