What cartridge did people complain about before the Creedmoor?

[Frog4aday]

There was the .40 S&W which got derided as "short and weak" because it wasn't the full power, macho 10mm (that no one could shoot worth a dang because of the recoil.) Ironically, the .40 S&W got a reputation for having enough recoil itself to be unpleasant and challenging to shoot, not to mention the early guns not holding up to it's extended use.

There was the .308 Winchester that so much wanted to be the .30-06 Springfield, but never would be or could be because there is no replacement for displacement (e.g., powder capacity.)

Then there was the 9mm Luger (9X19mm). It was a crappy old German cartridge that couldn't kill a mouse even if you smacked the mouse with the gun itself. Only weak women and Bud Light drinkers would actually own and shoot one. Real men (of genius!) shot a .45 ACP (God rest John M. Browning's soul.)

It was nice that the 6.5 ManBun came along so all those 'old' debates could be forgotten and people could pile on the 'new kid' as being effeminate and not worthy of a 'real' shooter/hunter. I can't wait to see what we 'hate' next, ha!

 

[bdlesh]

We used to sit around and have a laugh about someone in inventing a 6.5 caliber cartridge , name it after the long distance match and then claim it will replace everything else.....then have man bun wearing,latte sipping, skinny jeans sporting, Prius driving non binary creatures crying in their bud light while shooting at target for bikinis with a nut sack pouch.....

 

[Rosebud]

Everybody hates a winner. Example. Alabama and Georgia now. Notre Dame two decades ago. Miami in the early 90s. Now its the CM. Pile on. Every one is doing it.

 

[yobuck]

Honestly, don't know

If I had to guess, 243 Winchester. All the attributes of the 6.5 Creedmoor in its day, low recoil, great velocity, accurate, good caliber for kids or recoil sensitive shooters. With a soft pointed bullet, killed stuff dead at reasonable ranges. Too bad Winchester hamstrung it with the slow twists. Imagine what it would have been with an 8 twist or even 9 twist barrels and 68ish years of technology advancements along the way.

I know my uncle had a 59 Model 70 in 243 and it killed everything he pointed it at my entire life, elk, deer, antelope, gophers.

Actually, i think you have that a bit wrong.
It was Remington who had all the dummies on the payroll, not Winchester.
Otherwise the 244/6 mm Rem would have the place it truly deserves, not the 243 Win.
And the same goes for the 280 as opposed to the one old Jack favored.
Now we are simply talking about cartridge quality, not gun quality.
But rest assured that a model 70 in 6 mm or 280, would have been a far more popular gun than the Remingtons were.
No doubt there are some here who never heard of a 6 mm Remington.

 

[std7mag]

Back about 10 years ago the greatest round on earth was the 338 Lapua Magnum.
Ya couldn't open a forum page without seeing it mentioned.
But even that couldn't compare with the way the CM has taken over.
Can't even talk about the color of baby poop without someone mentioning CM.

 

[Bob Wright]

Reloaders are doing well with the 6mm Remington cases (+ variants) now. It was tragic Remington messed up the introduction so long ago.

 

[yobuck]

Back about 10 years ago the greatest round on earth was the 338 Lapua Magnum.
Ya couldn't open a forum page without seeing it mentioned.
But even that couldn't compare with the way the CM has taken over.
Can't even talk about the color of baby poop without someone mentioning CM.

Well it wasent in the area of NC PA i hunt, and other than the very few who bought Savages it still isnt.
Frankly i think the fire in the belly for having any 338 for long range hunting there has diminished a bit over the last few years.
Ask anyone owning one how far their longest kill has been, and then you can begin to see the reason for that.
And that by the way includes our camp.

You know if we only had a fifty foot boat instead of this 30 foot boat, we could run further offshore and catch more and bigger fish.
Except of coarse on bad days when we cant go at all.
And on the good days we can still go with the 30 foot boat anyway.
Assuming its a good 30 foot boat .
And there are in fact lots of good ones.
Except the 30' Crymores of coarse. lol

 

[del2les]

So I started reading the 6.5 thread but got bored with the Creedmoor bashing about 5 pages in but it did spark a thought.

What cartridge did people complain about before the Creedmoor?

9mm vs 45 ACP
Or........the 40 short n weak

 

[std7mag]

9mm vs 45 ACP
Or........the 40 short n weak

Wait.....

There was bashing between 9mm vs 45ACP??!!

I didn't think that was a thing.
Hence why I carry 45..

 

[Darryle]

Back about 10 years ago the greatest round on earth was the 338 Lapua Magnum.
Ya couldn't open a forum page without seeing it mentioned.

Back around 2008/2009 I bought a Savage 112 laminate stainless fluted single shot 338 Lapua on a whim right after they were released. I bought a the only brass I could find, which IIRC was $100ish, don't remember the quantity, but it wasn't a lot, couldn't find dies in stock, but did manage to find 1 box of ammo. I mounted up an old Leupold M1 4.5 - 14 and went to my range. 3 rounds later I had a good zero, backed out to 500yds and shot a 3rd group that could be covered by your palm. Shot a couple of pigs with, biggest about 350/375lbs. All drt dead. I finished off the box of ammo on pigs, still not able to find dies, it was regulated to the back of the safe without the scope. It was heavy, cumbersome in a blind, but it was fun to shoot. I always thought that one day, I would buy dies and put it back into service around the farm. But life, kiddo, divorce, dating, remarried and 2 new kiddos kinda kept it out of my frontal cortex. Needless to say, I mentioned it to a coworker and he just had to shoot it. I loaned it to him and he eventually pestered me into selling it to him.

I told you all that to tell you that I learned about the 338 Lapua on a forum, decided that I needed/wanted one, bought one, satiated the desire to own one and then let it sit after the desire was fulfilled. Had no real use for it, had no trouble killing pigs with the 450 Marlin or the 30'06 that I normally used. A seed was planted, blossomed and died all because of internet chatter.

 

[Chadp82]

A particular cartridge doesn't come to mind, but………..At one time you weren't a real shooter unless you could handle the biggest, baddest, recoil monster. If you used a muzzle break you were wimpy

Now, muzzle breaks, suppressors, as well as light recoiling cartridges are accepted.

Even though I don't shoot a CM, I have tamed a couple rifles with muzzle breaks.

 

[CMP70306]

Well it wasent in the area of NC PA i hunt, and other than the very few who bought Savages it still isnt.
Frankly i think the fire in the belly for having any 338 for long range hunting there has diminished a bit over the last few years.
Ask anyone owning one how far their longest kill has been, and then you can begin to see the reason for that.
And that by the way includes our camp.

You know if we only had a fifty foot boat instead of this 30 foot boat, we could run further offshore and catch more and bigger fish.
Except of coarse on bad days when we cant go at all.
And on the good days we can still go with the 30 foot boat anyway.
Assuming its a good 30 foot boat .
And there are in fact lots of good ones.
Except the 30' Crymores of coarse. lol

Buddy of mine got one, he loads it with mild loads using 250gr bullets to save on the costs and after doing the math my .300 Win Mag with the 225gr ELD has more energy, less drop and less wind past 400 yards while being significantly cheaper.

He brings it out while with a group so he can say "look at my .338 Lapua" but other than that he doesn't shoot it and I'm not even sure he has a tuned load developed for it.

 

[yobuck]

Buddy of mine got one, he loads it with mild loads using 250gr bullets to save on the costs and after doing the math my .300 Win Mag with the 225gr ELD has more energy, less drop and less wind past 400 yards while being significantly cheaper.

He brings it out while with a group so he can say "look at my .338 Lapua" but other than that he doesn't shoot it and I'm not even sure he has a tuned load developed for it.

Well unfortunately there are an awfull lot of people who actually think that a 338 with a high BC 300 gr bullet is the best thing on the planet.
The higher the BC with any cartridge the further you can shoot, Right?
Truth is that any 338 leaving the muzzle at less than about 3000 FPS would perform better with lighter bullets for hunting.
And frankly so will your Win Mag, at least out to a further distance than you will ever kill anything with it.
For example, for many years i hunted with a 36" barreled 30x378.
A 200 gr SMK was leaving the muzzel at about 3500 FPS.
At 1500 yards that bullet landed about 6 feet higher on the hillside that a 240 SMK landed.
At 1 mile both bullets landed within a couple feet of each other, with the 240 being better.
After more than 50 years hunting long range my longest kill is 1200 yards.
And that with a 300 Wetherby necked down to 7 mm and a 162 gr bullet.
Hunting is one thing, shooting at steel targets is another thing.

 

[CMP70306]

Well unfortunately there are an awfull lot of people who actually think that a 338 with a high BC 300 gr bullet is the best thing on the planet.
The higher the BC with any cartridge the further you can shoot, Right?
Truth is that any 338 leaving the muzzle at less than about 3000 FPS would perform better with lighter bullets for hunting.
And frankly so will your Win Mag, at least out to a further distance than you will ever kill anything with it.
For example, for many years i hunted with a 36" barreled 30x378.
A 200 gr SMK was leaving the muzzel at about 3500 FPS.
At 1500 yards that bullet landed about 6 feet higher on the hillside that a 240 SMK landed.
At 1 mile both bullets landed within a couple feet of each other, with the 240 being better.
After more than 50 years hunting long range my longest kill is 1200 yards.
And that with a 300 Wetherby necked down to 7 mm and a 162 gr bullet.
Hunting is one thing, shooting at steel targets is another thing.

I had originally considered a .338 when looking for my first custom but the math didn't work out as I'd have to shoot past a mile to see the benefit and I can only shoot to 1000 here in PA.