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What caliber for a sheep rifle?

Ok swap it around use a 180gr roundnose projectile in a 308 24" barrel and then use a 210gr Berger VLD at 200 fpr slower at 1200 yards the 210gr projectile will shoot flatter than the lighter 180gr projectile that started out faster. Now get a 108gr VLD in the same rifle and the same velovity as the 180gr Round nose and a 210gr Round nose projectile the oposite will be true the 180gr VLD will win. another one get a 155gr Palma projectile in a 308 at 3000fps in a 30" barrel then get a 210gr VLD (much higher BC) at 2700 fps at 1000 yards the 155gr projectile has got there quicker but it has a lot more drift than the 210gr VLD and it will have a bullet drop similar or less.

All in all without the Bull#### about some fancy reinvention of the wheel and trying to be smart BC wins over velocity.

Now as has already been stated the wind drift in more important that the bullet drop. The reason is

Ok you are a proficent long range hunter well practiced and ethical in your shooting. You have a 1800 yard shot over a valley down hill at aroung 30 degrees you have a 338 Allen Mag you have a load with your 160gr Barnes XLC at over 4300fps and a load with a 300gr MatchKing at 3300fps. in the middel of the valley their is a small ravene and the day is cooling and the wind will start changing but winds are diferent and you must rely on local experience to get accurate readings. ( know this form being in charge of firefighting on the ground in the equivelent to your smoke jumpers. I used to repel into fires here in Australia in dangerous situations with my crew and only chainsaws and rake hoes).

So you take a laser or optical range reading, now you convert it with an angle cosign indicator and punch it into your palm pilot or refer to your data sheets. Lets say the 160gr projectile shoots flatter for the argument.
Now you take a reading with your wetherstation and fill in the relevent information about elevation, Temp, humidity and pressure etc. The wind is coming from left to right at a constant 15MPH

The program tells you what to adjust so you do it and take the shot.

Now at this stage you should have an exact elevation for either projectile irrespectivly of the one with a flatter trajectory.

So you take the shot with yout 160gr 338 and your mate takes the shot with the exact rifle with the 300gr 338 projectile at an animal standing 10 ft away from yours your friend has an extra 10 moa elevation dialed onto his scope. Both of your shots are perfect for elevation bur you did not know that when the air gets cool it gets heavier and creates a down draft that in that little gully in the middle of the distance. That downdraft is coming from right to left in the middle distance at 5MPH making you real shot at 10MPH from the Left

now the 168gr projectile gets blown back and hits the animal in the guts and tears a hole in him and he runs away never to be found duying in the bush somewher. But the shooter with the 300gr projectile only gets blown 1/3 of the distance and takes out the back of the lungs making the shot fatal and the animal runs a small way and expires humanely.

This is what DOES happen when people start talking about science when they do not use all the variables if you have a boat with a flat front and one with a V they both weigh the same both the same width both the same motors the more strrmlined one will win

Cheers Bill
Australia
<font color="red"> Ok How about we get on to what the thread is about the calibre someone would use for a sheep rifle. </font>
 
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if you have a boat with a flat front and one with a V they both weigh the same both the same width both the same motors the more strrmlined one will win


[/ QUOTE ]

Good analogy; but my part of the discussion here relates to how far each would drift in a cross current /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All the best

Matt
 
Hi Brown Dog,

I am out of my depth on this not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.....so when in doubt quote someone else....."wind deflection is not proportional to the time of flight. It is proportional to the amount of delay in the flight caused by air resistance".....From NRA Firearms Fact Book (then goes on to explain why .22HV ammo drifts more than .22 standard vel stuff). Not sure if that was already covered...like I said I am out of my depth.

David.
 
This in my eyes, is what I deem the perfect Sheep rig. Its a Mark Bansner "Ultimate Sheep Hunter" chambered in .300 Win. Mag., Rem. 700 action, Lilja bbl., leupold 2.5-8 vari X-III. Field ready it weighs 6lbs. 2 oz. It shoots 165 X bullets into tiny little groups.
Alot of people feel that they dont need that much power for Sheep, but after guiding in the Yukon, BC, and Alberta for 11 years, I will gladly take a little extra power, than not quite enough. I can say that without a doubt, that in the time I have spent guiding, that the .300 Win. Mag. was hands down THEE most popular chambering in our camps, on everything from Antelope/Deer to AK/YK Moose and Mnt. Grizz., and everything in between.
I will also say that I have a 7mm-08, .280 Rem. a 7mmSTW, and several others. I would use any of the above on a Sheep hunt, but if given the chance to build another "Sheep" rifle, it again would be chambered for the .300 Win. Mag. and nuthin' but!

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The 280AI is an excellent choice, 7mmRem Mag performance but should you ever run into a jam with lost ammo, you can always use 280 Rem factory ammo.
My 280 AI is on a 700 blueprinted action with a Hart #5 flutted 24" barrel.
The 160 gr AB shoots into the .2's with an average velocity of 3029 fps.
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280AI160grAB.jpg
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I just loaded up the 140 gr AB, .346" with avg vel of 3225 fps.
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280AI140grAB.jpg
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Hope this helps.

JD338
 
I have to say what a world wind of discussion. It is Halloween and I plan to have a nice relaxing day, you know read a little long-range hunter; get the kids candy ready for tonight, etc. I just could not help my self on this post, although a couple days late.
As for the original question, I have a 6.53 scramjet built on a Sako action that I use to hunt anything smaller than an elk and bigger than a coyote. I really like the gun and it weights about 8 1/4 pounds. I have been carrying this weight gun or there abouts all my life and I don't even think about weight to much. I will go along with Kirby on the weight thing. An ounce here an ounce there makes no real difference. If you are carrying a hunting type gun as opposed to a varmint type and it's to heavy, get in better condition, sheep hunting is very physically challenging. Especially for a southern boy like myself. I am a long time fan of 1/4 bores I like the 25-06, the Roberts in all its phases, the wildcats, and the Weatherby version. I feel the scramjet is absolutely the fastest a fella can go with a 1/4 bore, in all reality its probley a little to fast but I like the gun. I have been working on a load for a buddy's 25wsm and it ranks there with the Roberts. If you are trying to keep the cost down you just can't hardly beat the 25-06, easy to load and relatively cheap. I like the idea of cheap it just allows you to shoot more and this is what it take to hunt the great sheep of this land. All this said, I will continue to shoot my overly expensive scramjet and like it. I believe I have rattled on enough about the sheep thing.

Now I will tackle the BC thing. This is the truly funniest thing I ever expected to read this morning. All this wind drift and time in the air stuff. I will say, I have a great deal of aerodynamics back ground and experience in the field of shooting and reloading. I am also a pilot who has flown several aircraft in all kinds of weather. The point of time in the air really has no relevance here. The pure fact that a spritzer bullet is pointed it will have less time in flight over the round nose pushed at the same velocity, the drag is a lot higher on a round nose bullet. Drag is measured in the bullet world by BC this is what it is, in simple terms, the amount of drag a bullet has. The weight of a bullet is it momentum, remember Newton, once in motion something will stay in motion until some force overcomes this somthing. A heavier bullet has more inertia than a light bullet therefore it takes more of a force to stop it or to change its flight path. A heavy bullet with a very low drag (BC) is harder for the air friction and gravity to stop. It is also harder for the wind to move an aerodynamic bullet off of its path. I know that the longer a bullet is exposed to the wind the more chance the wind has to move it (I believe this is the mans point) however, the efficiency of the bullet far out weights the time of flight thing. The time of flight is fast with nearly any hunting cartridge 2-600 feet per second really only helps with gravity. If light fast bullets were the answer to overcoming wind drift, why are the 70-90 grain .224's so popular with the long range competitors, I mean why shoot a 77 grain out of a 223 case this bullet would obviously travel slower than a 40 grain, wouldn't it? This cartridge is limited of course by allowable propellant volume. "Splitting hairs" If you really want to get picky look up how Coriolis Effect works in the world along with how gyroscopic precession works and relation to the bullet spinning. Bottom line is, the higher the weight and the more efficient the bullet the better it will overcome the forces acting upon it. This of course assuming you have ample velocity to push the bullet to the speeds we are conversing here. I do understand the point made of time in flight and its a good thought but aerodynamically things change drastically when you go beyond the speed of sound.
If it wasn't for opinions we wouldn't have these great conversations!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif rotorhead
 
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