What ACTION for a 7mm-338 LAPUA Imp. cartridge?

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I Know that goodgrouper will track me down for this comment but, most people that are getting into long range shooting think you need tons of velocity to shoot far. I reccomend a 308 for a first LR rig.

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Not at all! I think the .308 makes a ton of sense and is a great gun for beginners and experts alike. But I also think that the 260 rem is better! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll bet you that if the military had been setup with .264 caliber barrels instead of .308 caliber barrels, the world would be a lot different!
 
I would go with a 7mm STW it is by far the best 7mm out there. The 7mm STW will shoot flatter buck the wind better and have more energy at longer range then a 300 win mag with equal bullet weights. As for the 7mm STW being a barrel burner I have 1500 + rounds through mine and a gun smith that says it will go another 1000 easy. If you go with a 28 inch barrel you should be able to drive 160 grain bullets over 3300 fps easily. As for recoil my Sendero weighs 11lbs and I would say it kicks like a 8lbs 270 or 30/06. If you are really want a bad *** long ranger don't waste your time with the 280 imp or 7mm WSM or 7mm Mag just get the STW and forget about the Ultra way to much powder for the 150fps you gain. You might want to talk to Richard Graves from wildcat bullets he is comming out with a 7mm 180 grain ULD and 200 grain ULD bullet that are really going to push a 7mm in the big boy league. The 180 grain is going to have a bc over .800 and the 200 grain is going to have a bc of over 1.0. That will compete with the big 338's out to a mile. Also the nice thing about Richard is he is a 7mm fan and has a few big 7mm's and he can tell you first hand how his bullets shoot. Richard is making me a 175 grain ULD thick Jacket bullet for my STW and the bc is going to be over the .700 mark. I should be getting them in the next couple of weeks and I will post the results.
 
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Not at all! I think the .308 makes a ton of sense and is a great gun for beginners and experts alike. But I also think that the 260 rem is better! I'll bet you that if the military had been setup with .264 caliber barrels instead of .308 caliber barrels, the world would be a lot different!

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My thoughts exactly...
as for the 7mm-338Lapua, wasn't len doing one of these about a year ago?
 
I agree that the 260 rem is a better long range round, but, I reccomend the 308 because of the availability of match ammo. Accurate rifles need accurate ammo. And if you dont reload, like a lot of people I talk to, then you are limited to what you can buy. And you can buy match 308 almost anywhere.

LiteTac.
 
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The 7mm STW will shoot flatter buck the wind better and have more energy at longer range then a 300 win mag with equal bullet weights

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That is like saying that a Ferrari and a Honda Element will not go the same speed in a school zone! Of course they will, a 20 mph speed limit is the same for both cars regardless of aerodyniamics! If you compare two calibers (one small and one large) and keep the bullet weights the same, you are not really comparing anything other than recoil!

A 7mm VLD does have a higher bc than a 180 grain .308, but get into the specialty 210,220 and 240 grain thutties and you have a different ball game. And honestly, I don't think that the original poster of this topic wants to shoot Berger 7mm 180 vld's for game OR the 220 .308 vld's either fot that matter.

I have a friend who took very good care of his 7 stw, and it gave up the ghost at about 900 rounds. He knew something was wrong when his groups opened up and he took it to a gunsmith to have it borescoped. The 28" Lilja was toast for about the first 3" of barrel! To make matters worse, he later admitted that while the stw would shoot 300 fps faster than his old 7mm mag, it had terrible accuracy at that speed. THe only load that shot to his expectations turned out to only shoot about 175 fps faster than the 7 mag! WOuld that be worth burning another 15 grains of powder for?



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and the 200 grain is going to have a bc of over 1.0. That will compete with the big 338's out to a mile

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I'm sorry, but you would have to have something with a lot more horsepower than a 7 stw to push a 200 grain bullet at velocities adequate to make this be a viable ".338 killer".
And even then you would still not beat the .338 because by the time your gun was dialed in for 1760 yards, your burned out throat would start blowing up bullets while our .338 MOAG would be ringing that 2k gong like no tomorrow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Did I just say that?!
 
The stock is not a mc millian. It is a sharp shooter supply or stockade gun stock. It looks just like the a 5 , it is very simmilar. I don't know as much about this stuff as you guys but my savages with sharp shooter supply stocks aluminum bedding blocks in the stocks shoot very well. My 22 br shot 1.5 group at 500 yards , with the stock not bedded, I don't think I can get it to shoot any better. As far as the 7-338 laupa I don't think you have much to gain,it will be hard on barrels. But I think a shortened improved version would work very well with richards 200gr bullets.
 
You are right fiftydriver bedding usually helps, I just tried shooting my stocks with out bedding first,and last two shot great, so I didn't bed them. Half my actions are bedded with the aluminum blocks in the stocks the others aren't. These are the same stocks they sell in brownells for savages. Kevin Rayhill in nebraska makes them. Sharp shooter supply sells them and so does brownells. You used one of these stocks on your 270 allen mag. How did you like it compared to other name brands? I haven't used any thing else to really compare them too. Thanks Reed
 
Well GG I will add a few thoughts on your friends barrel. I can burn out a 308 in 300 rounds if I dont know how to shoot it. I mean if you get any rifle hot you can burn it out. If you want to campare hunting bullets that is fine. A 7mm 160 Accubond has a bc of .530 while a .308 180 Accubond has a bc of .508. Now as for your friend and his un accurate rifle I guess he had a bad barrel or could be the shooter but I am driving 140 gr Accubonds out of mine right now at 3390 fps and I can shoot a 2inch group at 500 yards with those. I also shoot 175 Sierra SPBT at 3150 and they will do about a 3inch group at 500 yards as well out of a Rem Sendero. Over the last 6 years I have shot and reloaded for 5 or 6 7mm STW's and they all shot plain and simple. As for the 7mm STW not being able to compete with a Big 338 why dont you punch in a 7mm 200 grain bullet with a bc of 1.0 going 3000 fps and compare it to a 338 Ultra shooting a 300 sierra MatchKing at 3000 or 3100fps. I think you will be very suprised at what you find at 1800 yards. As for horse power a 7mm STW in a 30inch barrel will drive that 200 grain at or above the 3000fps mark and if you doubt it punch in 2900fps I dont care. Then look at wind drift fps and energy. A 338 will have more energy but it will also have more wind drift and drop and less velocity Oh and more recoil and more powder down the tube. A friend of mine has a 30inch Hart on his and he is getting just a little over 3250fps with 180 bergers. Now the ULD Wildcat Bullets that I was talking about are hunting bullets with the same design as Kirby's 257 Allen mag just heavier and in a 7mm. As for throat Erosion a 338 lapua is going to burn the throat out a hell of a lot faster than a 7mm STW that I will bet money on!!!
 
I too have shot the 160 accubonds out of several guns and will swear on a stack of bibles that the rated bc of .531 is not really what it is. Out of 4 guns at 1000 yards, it has hit low by several minutes each time compared to what Exbal and INfinity said it should. The .507 bc of the 180 accubond in thirty caliber is in my experience somewhat under rated. It usually shoots high in the dozens of guns that I have seen, shot myself, or heard about. They are supposedly the same bc as the 180 Ballistic tip when in reality, the two bullets have totally different bearing surfaces and lenghts.
Even if the two bullets (7 and 30) are the same bc or close to the same, I can get 3200 fps out of a 300 winny and still maintain good accuracy. I have yet to see a 7mm mag shoot well at anything over 3050. Run those numbers. I am not saying that the .284 bore is useless. In fact, I believe it to be one of the best "unused" calibers going. I say unused because up until the last few years, the 7's were nowhere to be found at the 1k benchrest matches. Thirties were and still are everywhere!

As for being a throat burner, you are right. Anything that gets hot will burn. But you make it sound like my friend abused his barrel. He did not. He never and I mean never got it hot, and he cleaned it religiously every 20 rounds. If he didn't, it wouldn't hit a Ford at 100 yards!
Have you ever borescoped your gun? He did his and it was ugly.

I have no doubt that if the bc is truly 1.00, and you can really get 3000 fps, it will be flatter and better in the wind than any .338. I can plainly see that without running it through one of my seven ballistic programs. The questions are:
Can you really get that velocity?
Is it really going to have a bc of 1.?
Can we compare an equally radical bullet for the .338 to yours?
Will it kick up enough dirt to see the impact at 2k?
What if you throat your gun for that one bullet and that one bullet doesn't agree with your barrel? Then what?
What if you really can get 3000 fps, will this super radical barrel shoot better at 2700, or even perhaps 2600?

These are things I would check on before I dumped thousands into a specialty 2k yard rig. THat is all I am saying. You might have the coolest lazer guided lead flinger on the planet, but if it won't last longer than a few hundred rounds, if ain't going to play with the .338 for long.

As for barrel life between the two, I would just like to know how you can say that the 7 stw loaded with 200 grain bullets will be easier on barrels. YOu are loading probably 70-80% as much powder as our .338, only you are trying to stuff it down a hole that is several calibers smaller, and is loaded to a higher psi. I would strongly suggest you read Oehler's interior ballistic examinations with regards to thrust, pressure curves, momentum of unburned powder, powder to bore ratios, and so on. It is not necessarily and only the amount of powder being propelled down the barrel that determines barrel life. It is many factors including bore size in relation to powder quantity, and others. A .45-120 burns a bunch of black powder, but it is easier on a barrel than a 7mm-08 because it is not channeling all that gas down a smaller hole, and it is not loaded to near the pressure. Therein lies the key.
 
I can believe the 160 has a lower bc then what is stated but what I dont believe is you trying to say a 7mm bullet will not shoot well over the 3050 fps mark and I think there will be a lot of 7mm shooters on here that would disagree with that as well. I think you are calling a 7mm STW a barrel burner and in accurate with very little experience on the matter. As for a 300 win I know full well what they can do I had my first one at 14 and have always had one since. As for your friend having to clean his barrel every 20 rounds that tells me right there he had a bad barrel. I can get 35 rounds out of mine and it does not copper foul bad at all. I had mine bore scoped two weeks ago because I am trying to justify to myself and the wife that I need a new Broughton barrel because I have over 1500 rounds through it. Well I should have just told myself it was burnt but I knew it wasnt and the Smith said the same thing. As for the 180 and 200 grain bullets from Wildcat bullets I am not going to throat my rifle for them I am going with a standard throat and the 7 or 8 twist I need and that is it. I will also say the big 338's have their place but I think you are going to see more smaller calibers shooting long range with the new bullet designs. I also have a question for you GG what kind of powder is your friend shooting in his rifle? If you still dont believe a 7mm will shoot at fast velocity I have your email address I will send you some pics of targets I have shot out of three different rifle's all are 7mm STW's and the targets will be the results at 100,300, and 500 yards I will also give you the velocity then you can decide for yourself. To CanadianLefty sorry for steering off track but if you would like to see the same results let me know I will email them to you as well. Canadian you are looking for the same rifle I am weight and everything you are just going with to big of a case. The biggest 7mm I would go with is the STW for the reasons I have already stated. I have had at least one for the last 7 or 8 years and have shot lots of different powder/bullet combinations. Like I said if you want more info just send me a email.
 
Reed Mosser,

I like the stock. It is totally unfinished and requires some filling, sanding, priming and painting but it does seem to be a solid platform for the Savage rifles. I wish Brownells offered them finished ready to roll, even for an extra $100 to $150 I would be willing to pay this. I do not care for stock finishing, I will do it and do it well but I will freely admit I would rather buy a stock ready to bed and go /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif!!

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
I take it most of you guys will be riding me hard when I release my 7mm Allen Mag this summer. I guess I will start getting ready for the rear chewing with this one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Bring it out Kirby and if you need a tester just send the rifle to me I will give it a honest eval. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Since you live in Montana I will even drive there and pick it up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Kirby please post some of your targets so GG can see what a fast 7mm really shoots like. I know why you are comming out with it to. We are on the same page it will compete with the big .338's at long range.
 
Dakor,
You misunderstood me. I didn't say 7 stw's were inaccurate at high velocities, I said that I have yet to see a 7mm rem mag shoot well over 3050. My friends 7 stw shot very well at 3275. I could probably even get him to post some pics of some great groups.

I also would appreciate it if you would not claim that I don't have experience with 7mm's. I have worked with my fair share, and If you recall, I stated ealier that they are one of our best calibers-so since we both have the same conclusion on the matter, then we are both experienced or inexperienced depending on your POV.

I have no doubt that if that magic bullet works out, it could be a super long ranger.

But I am curious why you state that the 7 rem mag is "not enough" and the 7 Ultra is too much. The 7 stw is to the 7 remy what 7 ultra is to the 7 stw. YOu are splitting hairs saying that one cartridge in this category is better than the other because actual differences dictate that the 7 stw is more like the Ultra then the 7 rem. Overbore is overbore, and I hate to tell you, but the stw IS slightly overbore.
 
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