lewwetzel
Well-Known Member
Do I "need" one? Saw a nice-looking used VLS in a store. Or should I stick with the .243 as I planned? Would be used mostly for longer-range groundhogs. Thanks.
What About The "Dead" 6mm Remington?
- Thread starter lewwetzel
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SBruce
Well-Known Member
I think it's "dead" for all the wrong reasons. It never got a fair chance to begin with, because remington supposedly put the wrong twist rate in the first runs of factory rifles. By time they noticed their error, the 243 had gained a loyal following.
Most savy long range PD shooters I know, would take a 6MM over a 243 any day. Their reasoning is that the necks are too short on 243 and the throats last longer on a 6mm. Not to mention, the 6mm is just a tad faster. I've heard that powder fouling is also worse in a 243. Only downside I know of for the 6mm is that it takes a longer action, but if you want to shoot long VLD type bullets, you should really use a long action anyway IMO. One other possible downside would be that the brass isn't that common, and stuff for 243 is easier to get.
On the rifle in question, you might check into the twist rate and make sure it's suitable for the bullets you want to shoot.
Again, most of the long time varmint shooters that I've known really prefer the 6mm.
Most savy long range PD shooters I know, would take a 6MM over a 243 any day. Their reasoning is that the necks are too short on 243 and the throats last longer on a 6mm. Not to mention, the 6mm is just a tad faster. I've heard that powder fouling is also worse in a 243. Only downside I know of for the 6mm is that it takes a longer action, but if you want to shoot long VLD type bullets, you should really use a long action anyway IMO. One other possible downside would be that the brass isn't that common, and stuff for 243 is easier to get.
On the rifle in question, you might check into the twist rate and make sure it's suitable for the bullets you want to shoot.
Again, most of the long time varmint shooters that I've known really prefer the 6mm.
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Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
The 6mm Rem is far from dead. I like to describe it like this. It's like a 243 but a lot more of it. Other than brass selection (no Lapua) It does everything I ever wanted out of a 6mm. It reallly shines when it is improved.
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
^^^+1 here, I shoot the 6mmAI, I did go with a 1-12 twist on mine (doh!), but I've been able to shoot several 100yd groups <.400 with 85grn bullets @ 3500 (a little moderate). I have been shooting this for nearly a decade (first semi-custom), I am really happy with this caliber. I also agree with the above mentioned that if you do want to shoot the long bullets grab a LA or you'll be single loading.
When it's all said & done, when I finally shoot out the barrel on this 6mm you can bet your shorts there will be another 6mm (fast twist
) screwed right back onto it.J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The 6mm Rem is a fine cartridge and as SBruce said the twist rate was wrong for the bullets
that were loaded at the time.
They do well with a 1 in 10 twist, and are a good cartridge to wildcat.
The 6mm AI and the 224/ 6mm (Texas trophy Hunter) are some of the more successful
ones.
Some have necked them up to 25 cal and love them.
So if it has a 1 in 10 twist or faster It will be an upgrade from the 243 in my opinion.
J E CUSTOM
that were loaded at the time.
They do well with a 1 in 10 twist, and are a good cartridge to wildcat.
The 6mm AI and the 224/ 6mm (Texas trophy Hunter) are some of the more successful
ones.
Some have necked them up to 25 cal and love them.
So if it has a 1 in 10 twist or faster It will be an upgrade from the 243 in my opinion.
J E CUSTOM
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I'm in the group that says the .243 Winchester is just a passing fad that soon educates folks on how not design case. The Remington VLS is too short for the 6mm remington unless it's a long action. In a Savage it would work just fine as they are a little bit longer. But the Remington used as a single shot would work just fine. The Remington's magazine is too short for even a .243 when using long bullets. There as been much written about the twist rate in the .244 and the 6mm verses the .243. 88% of it is crap! If your shooting PD's and coyotes, your gonna use something lighter than 87 grains most of the time, and a 1:10 (and maybe a 1:11) twist will work just fine. But if your shooting 70 grain bullets the 1:9 twist will actually cause your groups to open up (a .0001" error in the C/G will usually displace .09" @ 100 yards). You'd be much better off with a 1:12 twist
gary
gary
lewwetzel
Well-Known Member
Since it would be used for varmints & coyotes and shooting lighter/shorter bullets, the SA and barrel twist shouldn't be that much an issue, then. Will give it a good inspection and if OK, go for it. Thanks for the replies!
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I had an Ackley once, and the thing would shoot further than I could! If you do; I recommend a 1:8 barrel about 27" long. Even then I doubt you'll see 200 fps on a good day with a 65K psi load. It is faster than a 6/.284, but not enough to matter much.
gary
B23
Well-Known Member
If loaded to the same PSI how is a 6mmAI be faster than a 6-284? The 6-284 still has a pretty good edge in powder capacity.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
the standard 6mm case is really about it for a .24 bore size. This is why you really only gain about 150 fps with the Ackley. The .284 case is very close to the 30-06 case capacity, which is very over bore for a 24 caliber. In other words you end up blowing most of the increased powder out the end of the barrel. P.S. ran some test awhile back compairing the .243, .243AI, 6mm, 6AI, and the 6/284. The 6AI was slightly faster (less than 100 fps) than the .284 case with chamber pressures that were very stiff to say the least. I'd liked to seen them add in the 6Vias, but that would have ruined a lot of other folks plans.
gary
B23
Well-Known Member
Your test sounds like it was likely done with lighter bullets and if so I can see them all being relatively close in fps but with heavier bullets there is just no substitute for horsepower and I would find it hard to believe the bigger/biggest case wouldn't prevail as long as they were all loaded to relatively the same pressures. Throw into the mix Lapua brass can handle higher pressures than lesser quality brass and I would really struggle to believe the average Rem. 6AI would out run a 6-284, 6-06, 6-06ai or 240Wby all of which have about the same case capacity.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
they used everything from the lightest bullets to 115's. I tried several of the loads they used, and my results were similar, but accuracey wasn't always there. They only thing they didn't try was the old .257 case trick, and a couple other rounds added to the mix (6XC, 6/250AI, and the 6Vias). They did do some work with the 6Vias a few months later and it flat smoked most everything out there. The difference between the strongest brass alloy and the weakest is not all that much, and the weak link is the primer pocket and the neck. To get a stronger alloy you'd have to go with a bronze alloy that would totally unsuitable for the use. Add this to the fact that 68K is about it for working pressures, and keeping things in one piece.
To further add to the 6/.284 quagmire is the 6/.284-.100" short and the 6/.284-.150" short. The .100" short round is less than 75 fps slower than the full length case, and the .150" shorter one is less than 100fps. This is the major hint that you got more powder than you can use. Even the shoulder on the 6Vias is pushed back about .04" with the same overall length, and yet is well known to be faster.
gary
