what 6mm

[Trickymissfit]

Gary I can't say I had any problems with the 600 brass I fireformed last year. I split 4! But then again like I posted before help is close and experience well no one else compares. I look forward to seeing the 6 BG in Calf. next month at the benchrest and F-Bench Nationals. I am sure if it is good as you say some will be shooting it. Guess we will see what comes out on top.



Brent

I doubt you'll see it in any match under three hundred yards. Those yardages are all pretty much locked up by the 6PPC and the 6BR, plus the BG series was never developed as a target only round. It's really a long range varmit rounds that can also be used to punch paper. It for me is a better solution to the problems that the 6/250AI has, and also not a lot different (little longer at the shoulders). This is why I said the better solution was to use the 6mm Remington improved reamer, and just ream the chamber short to headspace off a 250AI headspace gauge or better yet the shoulder length of about 1.55". That way you'll end up with a 6mm Jaybird with either a 40 degree or 30 degree shoulder depending on which reamer you select.

Looking at the 6mm SLR prints, I think I could do a .25" barrel setback, and simply run their reamer in my 6/250 chamber. The only issue I see with it is that with case shrinkage during the fire form operation you'll be hard pressed to see a .290" neck length. Be better with a 1.540" shoulder and an extended neck length to come out at about .32" neck length. In otherwords similar to a 6BG.
gary

 

[blipelt]

The class we shoot in is 600 and 1000yds. I will make all but one this year, however Richard plans to make them all. You should try and make a 600 or 1000yd. event especially a Nationals it brings out the big dogs. You never know, talk with someone well versed in the Dasher and you might have a different opinion. Like 40-50 reloads on brass. Not every shooter/reloader is equal.

Brent

 

[CB11WYO]

hey cb what about the 6-47 do you like better over the 6AI ?

Booney,

Disclaimer: This is, of course, only my own humble opinion...

If I read right you said you wanted a 6mm for rockchucks, paper, and maybe in the future an "occasional" antelope. My thoughts were mostly based on that comment.

With your planned use in mind the 6x47 gives me great accuracy, efficiency, barrel-life, and won't wear me out after a day of shooting varmints. (granted the 6AI doesn't have TONS of recoil but the 6x47 still wins with less)

I haven't tried anything heavier than 95 gr SMK's in the 6x47. With 39 gr of H4350 they go 3100 fps and are really accurate. The 6AI will of course shoot bigger bullets faster (my 6AI shoots 107 gr SMKs @ 3300 if I remember right) but at the expense of recoil, more powder usage, and probably less barrel life.

The 6x47 still has enough "umph" to hit the occasional antelope hard enough to get him down at range. If your planned uses were reversed (if you wanted a 6mm deer/antelope gun that would "occasionally" see paper/varmints) then I would say the 6AI would win out.

I hope that all came out clear... Keep in mind I'm only comparing the 6AI and the 6x47 for your application, which is similar to my situation actually.

Being a younger shooter I have not yet had experience with 6BR's, 6XC's or 6-06's so my expertise is limited there. So you may find other info from those cartridges that better fits your bill.

Hope this all helps

 

[Trickymissfit]

honestly, even the 6XC and the 6/250 will get old setting over a dog town! Yest you could shoot a dozen or even two dozen , but after about 30 your gonna flinch a bit. I wouldn't be afraid to use a 6BR on white tails out to 400 yards with the right bullet and some very hot loads. A 6BR is fun to shoot and won't beat you up as bad. The 6x47L will develop more recoil, but would fit your needs better (just a good all around round).

Ferris Pindell said more than once the the 6BR was a better round than the 6PPC past 300 yards, and that was saying something as he's the guy that made the 6PPC shoot so well. I think the 6BR is the place to start out at. If it dosn't work you have plenty of metal there to rechamber it into something that will work for you.
gary

 

[CB11WYO]

...With your planned use in mind the 6x47 gives me great accuracy, efficiency, barrel-life, and won't wear me out after a day of shooting varmints. (granted the 6AI doesn't have TONS of recoil but the 6x47 still wins with less)...

I need to mention though, concerning the recoil comments... My 6x47 does weigh 13 lbs. I'm thinkin somethin to do with the 30" Lilja But then again I never needed it to be a pack-on-foot-all-day-long kind of gun.

 

[Booney]

Thats all right i pack my 17lbs 338 AM up and down mts all over.

 

[CB11WYO]

Thats all right i pack my 17lbs 338 AM up and down mts all over.

Dang! Must be a worth-while rifle I sure ain't quite that motivated, a mile or so in search of a yote on foot is good for me.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I need to mention though, concerning the recoil comments... My 6x47 does weigh 13 lbs. I'm thinkin somethin to do with the 30" Lilja But then again I never needed it to be a pack-on-foot-all-day-long kind of gun.

with that case capacity, you really don't need that long of a barrel. Even a 26" barrel is almost too long. I'd look at a 24" barrel. I mean you looking at a case that is about 1.85" long, and that's a lot shorter than a .243, and actually a shorter body length than the 6x250. The shorter barrel in a compariable profile will be much more rigid, and probably shoot better groups. In a pinch you could probably get by OK with a 22" barrel, but the powder range will be shorter.
gary

 

[CB11WYO]

with that case capacity, you really don't need that long of a barrel. Even a 26" barrel is almost too long. I'd look at a 24" barrel. I mean you looking at a case that is about 1.85" long, and that's a lot shorter than a .243, and actually a shorter body length than the 6x250. The shorter barrel in a compariable profile will be much more rigid, and probably shoot better groups. In a pinch you could probably get by OK with a 22" barrel, but the powder range will be shorter.
gary

I will definitely agree the 30 incher is long as a bad dream some days. But alot of why I like it is it brings out big-boy performance from such a little case. I met a guy at the range the other day with a 24" custom .243. He was shooting 95 gr. bullets at 3000 fps. Like you said the 6x47L case is alot smaller than a .243 yet I'm pushing the same 95 grainers to 3100 fps, with less powder. Am I just naive in thinking that the better performance is coming mostly from my extra barrel length? (and of course efficient case design...)

So I guess the question you raise for me is: is there a way to get my same 30-inch-barrel performance out of a 6x47L in a 24" barrel while still using my 95 grain bullet?

 

[Truc]

I shot the 6 Dasher in competition in a Panda action, and never had any problems forming the cases, but it does take work as far as turning the necks and fire forming. It would handle pressure better than the 6/250 as I had one of these also, though on a Rem action. My barrel was only 24.5" and gave nothing up to the big 30's at 600 yds. I shot a 108 gr bullet., and is a real pleasure to shoot in a light Varmint rifle.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I will definitely agree the 30 incher is long as a bad dream some days. But alot of why I like it is it brings out big-boy performance from such a little case. I met a guy at the range the other day with a 24" custom .243. He was shooting 95 gr. bullets at 3000 fps. Like you said the 6x47L case is alot smaller than a .243 yet I'm pushing the same 95 grainers to 3100 fps, with less powder. Am I just naive in thinking that the better performance is coming mostly from my extra barrel length? (and of course efficient case design...)

So I guess the question you raise for me is: is there a way to get my same 30-inch-barrel performance out of a 6x47L in a 24" barrel while still using my 95 grain bullet?

a .243 will push a 95 grain bullet right ontop of 3200fps using a 26" barrel. Yet the 6BR with the same bullet will go an honest 2850fps with a 24" barrel. and will probably do over 2900fps with the same barrel. The 6BR was made for a 22" barrel, and we see little gains to be made with the much longer barrels. The 250 case was also designed around the 22" barrel length, but is best with a 24" barrel for a near full powder burn. I use a 26" barrel with the 6/250AI, and honestly think it'd work well with a 24" barrel with the right powder. It will do a slight tick under 3000fps with a 105 grain bullet. So a 95 grain bullet ought to do right at 3100fps. The others have gotten 3100fps out of the same bullet in the 6x47L. That a smaller case, and we learn that it must have a very efficient powder burn like the 6BR. On the otherhand the 6mm INT. (great round) is listed by Sierra at almost 2800fps with the 105 grain bullet. (20" barrel length) I kinda think their loads are somewhat anemic here anyway, and think it has another 100fps in it. The shoulder to base length is 1.39" with an overall length of 1.91". In improved version would be very similar to the 6x47L if I have the drawings right in my head. The Ackley handbook shows two or three improved international cases, and one (or more) of them are said to push a 95 grain bullet to almost 3300fps! Barrel length is unspec'd. The HLS is also similar in velocity

The real serious issue with longer barrels (besides weight) is harmonics. They literally become a tuning fork in an effort to gain another hundred feet per second. Plus it would take a middle line backer to hump that thing a couple miles with a 1" strait contour. Lilja did a test a few years back with his #7 contour barrels. He found that a 21" barrel was 2.75 stiffer than the same contour 26" long. I did my own testing (although rather crude), and pretty confirmed his thoughts. I also got similar results with the Remington #5.5 contour (maybe 2.5 times stiffer) going from 26" to 20" in length. But the test with the Remington barrel cannot be compaired exactly with his test as part of the big end hand been cut off. I would have prefered a 22" barrel, but it just didn't come out that way. The rest of my testing would be considered flawed by any man, as there were too many other things added into the mix to compair the short barrel with the longer in performance, except for velocity. In this case I lost 74fps. (.223 case)
gary

 

[CB11WYO]

....
The real serious issue with longer barrels (besides weight) is harmonics. They literally become a tuning fork in an effort to gain another hundred feet per second....
gary

Gary,

I agree, and what you've said makes sense. lightbulb

I'll definitely keep that in mind for future rifles. For now she seems to be shooting good enough for what I need her for, 1/3 MOA to 1000+ yards or so. So I'll probably let her be.

Thanks!

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary,

I agree, and what you've said makes sense. lightbulb

I'll definitely keep that in mind for future rifles. For now she seems to be shooting good enough for what I need her for, 1/3 MOA to 1000+ yards or so. So I'll probably let her be.

Thanks!

*I honestly think the improved 6mm International might just be the perfect 6mm case. Looking at the three I have some data on, one is kind of left stunned! With a 100 grain bullet in each round the Durham version does 2970fps in a 22" barrel with H380 powder. The same round with 4350 goes 3100fps! Now that round has a slightly shortened neck length (I'd guess it to be about .34") and a 40 degree shoulder with minimum taper. That round with a 24" barrel and some of our newer powders (H1000?) ought to hit the 3250fps mark. Cases can be formed from .243, .250 Sav., or even 22-250 brass as it has an overall length of 1.875". Looks like he reamed the chamber with a standard 6mmAI reamer.

*The Donaldson International starts out similar, but uses the standard taper and a 30 degree shoulder with a shorter necklength (probably about .33"). He got 3200fps with that 100 grain bullet in an unknown barrel length (4350 powder again)

* The Remington International design has a lot of taper in the case with a very long neck length (close to .37"). Walker still got 3060fps out of it! (must have been a very hot load) He used 4064 powder.

These rounds are ideal for a short action Remington (known to be a little on the short side anyway). Are extremely efficient, and from the shoulders forward are very well designed, and should have a very good barrel life. The Donaldson and Durham version are far better rounds than a Dasher. Yet similar in many ways.
gary

 

[timmyatnop]

Might want to do a littel research on the 6mm compition match.