Weighing components
- Thread starter 400bull
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400bull
Well-Known Member
I got home from work today and decided I would start sorting everything by weight. What I found out is that my empty Reminton brass weighs on average 8 grains more then my Winchester brass. Taking that into account I've now narrowed my exstream spread down for my loaded rounds to about 5 grains. That's a little more along the lines of what I was thinking it should be. Now I'm wanting to go to the range this weekend to see if the Remington brass rounds preform any different then the Winchester rounds.
400bull
400bull
They will more than likely print to a different point of impact. Like 1-3 moa different POI - that's along the lines I've experienced with different brands of brass that weigh 8-10 grains difference with sporter type factory rifles
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Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
Sort each brand once more by weight into 1-2 grain groups and throw away the weird outliers. Then when you are shooting if a piece of brass fails to group, throw it away also. This culls out the deviations that you cannot see and measure but that exist.
You know we have discussed this and where my position comes from. If Speedy did all of the research years ago and determined that weighing cases is a waste of time then it is not a conclusion that I take lightly as we have discussed this subject more than once. If you can set world records and be in the HOF there must be something to your process. When shooting I never give it a second thought because 99% of the people do not know how to set up bags correctly or judge condition when evaluating loads and a multitude of other things so if it makes them feel better then let them muddle along. Believe me if it make a difference then it will get done---now sorting bullets by bearing surface—YEAH BABY!!Like BOSS HOSS I do not wiegh brass
Here are a couple of 300 yard groups
Have watched people even after instruction screw up the process beyond belief----in competition they are referred to as social shooters. There is nothing wrong with being a social shooter but in my case it is the culmination of all of the required processes that make my rifles shoot exactly as they should. When I am shooting a target in a State Championship or lining up on a feral hog there is nothing in my mind except judging the condition, range and speed of the target so if something goes wrong there is no doubt that is the trigger puller. If you are worried about Anything else then you have failed in your "mise en place" so to speak imho.
Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
There is a theory that calls for negative mass. In fact most relativistic mechanics do not forbid negative mass. It is very common in Area 51 to encounter wrecked alien space craft with negative mass propulsion systems. With as much work as Speedy did in area 51 it does not surprise me that he used negative mass alloys for cartridge cases.
Most of us operate in a world of positive mass where alloys have weight and that mass is associated with a volume of the alloy and once we confine that alloy to a certain external dimension the only place for variation to be is in the internal dimension.
Nonetheless, one must have a method of getting rid of weird components even if it is sprinkling them with dried mushroom powder and waving three buzzard feathers over them. These ten Berger 155.5 fullbore bullets have been sprinkled with dried mushroom powder and pretty soon I will wave the feathers over them to determine if any of them are weird.
Most of us operate in a world of positive mass where alloys have weight and that mass is associated with a volume of the alloy and once we confine that alloy to a certain external dimension the only place for variation to be is in the internal dimension.
Nonetheless, one must have a method of getting rid of weird components even if it is sprinkling them with dried mushroom powder and waving three buzzard feathers over them. These ten Berger 155.5 fullbore bullets have been sprinkled with dried mushroom powder and pretty soon I will wave the feathers over them to determine if any of them are weird.
There is a theory that calls for negative mass. In fact most relativistic mechanics do not forbid negative mass. It is very common in Area 51 to encounter wrecked alien space craft with negative mass propulsion systems. With as much work as Speedy did in area 51 it does not surprise me that he used negative mass alloys for cartridge cases.
Most of us operate in a world of positive mass where alloys have weight and that mass is associated with a volume of the alloy and once we confine that alloy to a certain external dimension the only place for variation to be is in the internal dimension.
Nonetheless, one must have a method of getting rid of weird components even if it is sprinkling them with dried mushroom powder and waving three buzzard feathers over them. These ten Berger 155.5 fullbore bullets have been sprinkled with dried mushroom powder and pretty soon I will wave the feathers over them to determine if any of them are weird.
Your comments while I am sure are intended to highlight your knowledge of the subject matter they rather make you look less than knowledgeable and in fact a personification of the "social shooter" phenomenon. Nonetheless, please state your theory of how one may extrapolate how the difference in weight of given cartridge cases are attributable to any volumetric differences between those cases? Without destructive analysis or having a repeatable process for actually filling each case to actually determine the absolute volume it cannot be done by weighing an empty case.
Please enlighten me. If you had the proper equipment to measure you would see that external dimensions are not always the same subsequently shooting a hole in your theory.
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MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I love this site probably more for it's entertainment value than it's technical value 
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Some will say it makes no difference if you weight components or not, But I will have to disagree
because for shot to shot consistency everything matters.
My finished loads weigh withen 1 grain of each other because I weight sort my brass after full
length sizing,neck turning and trimming to length, then I weight powder charges with 0 weight
difference and the bullets are also weight sorted(They will vary a little also). In addition to weight sorting I also sort for concentricity.
The idea is to produce loads as near perfectly the same as possible. This can/does reduce SDs
and group size.
I realize that some loads shoot well without doing all of this but the chance of a fly er is much
higher and a fly er at 100 yards may be only 1/2" out of the rest of the group but at 1000 yards
it could /will be at best 5 or 6'' and for long rang shooting/hunting that is not a confidence
builder.
The only thing that I don't weigh is the primer but I am very particular when seating them about
the seating pressure and if one doesn't feel right it gets rejected for the same reason.
I feel that you get out of reloading what you put into it.
I would rather throw away a few components than a hunt of a lifetime because I didn't take the
time to load the absolute best ammo I could.
This is just My opinion.
J E CUSTOM
I love this site probably more for it's entertainment value than it's technical value
Would agre with that statement 100% Speedy as well as other friends of mine who shoot competitively and work in the industry get a lot of laughs from what gets posted here (they will not post on thse types of sites because on the internet everyone is an expert lol). Do not get me wrong Not All of it is froth with humor just some of it.
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MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Boss,
I am with you on this one. The humor I get from our site has more to do with "witty" exchange of opinions than the content
I think BB's argument has some "theoretical classroom" merit, but then the classroom doesn't always line up with happens in real life. Mass does have volume and mass of similar construction will displace volume similarly... but as you point out, the overall shape will have an impact on the final answer. I guess one way to get an idea of the impact, or lack of would be to take a sample population of cases from each extreme and fill them them to the top of the mouth and measure the results. I'll probably do that just for grins. Who knows, it might change my mind
If there are guys like Speedy out there who are getting good results without weighing capacities, I would think that would be a compelling argument for it's lack of necessity.... that's just me.
With respect to our other posters, I agree that's it good to do everything we can to be as precise and consistent "as practical" (not necessarily, "as possible") but in the end, I don't think weighing brass will determine if we bag or miss that once in a life time buck or bull. Knowing our capabilities and limitations and the being able to read and compensate for the conditions are much more critical.
Who knows... Maybe I'm wrong???
....but I doubt it
I am with you on this one. The humor I get from our site has more to do with "witty" exchange of opinions than the content
I think BB's argument has some "theoretical classroom" merit, but then the classroom doesn't always line up with happens in real life. Mass does have volume and mass of similar construction will displace volume similarly... but as you point out, the overall shape will have an impact on the final answer. I guess one way to get an idea of the impact, or lack of would be to take a sample population of cases from each extreme and fill them them to the top of the mouth and measure the results. I'll probably do that just for grins. Who knows, it might change my mind
If there are guys like Speedy out there who are getting good results without weighing capacities, I would think that would be a compelling argument for it's lack of necessity.... that's just me.
With respect to our other posters, I agree that's it good to do everything we can to be as precise and consistent "as practical" (not necessarily, "as possible") but in the end, I don't think weighing brass will determine if we bag or miss that once in a life time buck or bull. Knowing our capabilities and limitations and the being able to read and compensate for the conditions are much more critical.
Who knows... Maybe I'm wrong???
....but I doubt it
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