Virginia Tech

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I was questioning why the police hid behind there cars and trees some 50+ yards from the school.

Two trained officers, skilled with pistol/shotgun combat techniques should have been able to find and stop the shooter realativly easy. Listen to the gun fire, follow it to the source, eliminate the source with the element of suprise.

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WHAT!

Give me a break, now it is the cops fault. Give us ALL of the facts that were known at the time the police got there, and how many shots were fired AFTER the cops got there?

Did they know for a fact that there was ONLY one shooter?
Did they know for a fact that he only had pistols and not rifles.

They used cover for the same **** reason our soldiers have armoured Humvees and use cover in Iraq!

I see ZERO wrong with the police actions.
I see HUGE mistakes made by VT officials, but hindsight is great. How anyone would act when there life is in danger won't know until they are confronted.

edge.

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EXACTLY! This thing is turning out to be the Cops' and the guns fault, not the sick piece of crap that would even think of killing or trying to kill 50+ innocent people! All I can say is, If I were there with a CCW, the situation would have turned out a little differently.......
 
Responses to these situations are great, when were sitting at a computer terminal or in front of the TV.

I don't know which is greater. The remorse I feel for the lives lost, or the anger I feel when someone blames either the police or the gun for this.

As was stated earlier, it would be nice to have the facts, as close to all the facts, as possible before the finger is pointed at the police.

Preliminary reports stated that after the first shooting, the police apprehended someone who they later released. Frankly, it probably took some time before they established his non-involvement before the second shooting.

Could they have been two seperate incidents?

Don't know, but I'm not likely to start blaming anyone other than the shooter.


I've seen way too much death, and death causing situations to ever second guess the actions of the participants.

I can't even begin to imagine what the shooter had going through his twisted brain.

What pains me the most, however, and was brought up before, is this mentality to sit back and wait. I wasn't brought up this way, so I can't even begin to imagine what they're thinking. I'm not condemning those that did, I just don't understand how, as a society we have withdrawn to the point where our own survival is meaningless. By the same token, this same mentality about the quality of our lives is probably what removes the last barrier from some idiot going on a rampage.

And some CCW holders are in it for the cool factor. And I'm not trying to be defensive, but to show why some people do. To me, frankly, carrying a sidearm is a pain in the ***. I have to go out of my way to leave it at home, before picking up my little girl from school. I need to position myself to keep it hidden when taking a leak at a public urinal. I need to know exactly where were going on family trips and weigh how many times I need to leave it in the vehicle, and if it will be secure. Its a freaking burden sometimes. I carry it because I don't know who is going to be there to protect my little girl and wife if someone decides to go off.

George Washington originally balked at becoming the first President, but agreed because he felt he had a duty to the Country. Sometimes I wonder if it should have been written, over 200 years ago, as "A Duty to keep and bear arms" rather than a "right". 200 years of thinking about it differently sure would have made a different world.

I prayed for half an hour driving home yesterday, for all the victims.

Last night, I prayed for the soul of the killer.

Today, I pray that people realize, as I do with all of these events, that regardless of the Utopia of free will that people want to create, with BS on TV, disarming America, taking God out of everything, and blaming inanimate objects for the vile way men treat each other, that their actions only cause more harm.

They might want to start thinking about what is missing in people's lives that going on a shooting spree is the only answer to their problems.

Fix that.

And then realize that some people just can't be reached. That's the life we've been given.
 
I dont think it is the cops fault, this sick SOB is the one who did the damage. But i do believe the PD response was **** poor. You would think after watching the police at Columbine wait outside and the resulting life loss the policy of waiting would have changed like we were all told it would.

I personnally am very frustrated that the police again would wait outside while they could hear the attack happening. I am not law enforcement so I wont presume to know the best tactics. It does seem like more and more in our country the policy is to protect your own *** rather than help your fellow man.

Crap thing is is that you all know the anti gun nuts are gonna use this full force against us, and we are getting more and more outnumbered by these crack heads!!!!!
 
I did a Google search for a time-line on the events (Link below):

9:45 a.m.
The VT PD received a 911 call of a shooting at Norris Hall, which contains faculty offices, classrooms and laboratories. VT PD and Blacksburg PD immediately responded to Norris Hall. Notice in leadership command center via our police rep of a shooting in Norris.

Upon arrival to Norris Hall, the officers found the front doors barricaded. Within a minute the officers breached the doors, which had been chained shut from the inside.

Once inside the building, the officers heard gunshots. They followed the succession of gunshots to the second floor. Just as the officers reached the second floor, the gunshots stopped.

The officers discovered the gunman, who had taken his own life. There was never any engagement between the responding officers and the gunman.


Now if someone has some other source I would like to know where the police "hung around"!

web page

edge.
 
Just callin what i saw on tv buddy, i aint sayin its the best way to get your facts in todays world but i am just callin what i saw on the tube


anyone know how he was able to get the pistols???? did he purchase them legally??????
 
Most situations are NOT stormed en masse, rather a special tactical squad makes the breach. Anyone not involved would naturally keep cover between them and the risk. You may have a hundred cops at the scene, and only one or two teams of 5 making the breach. TV can't see inside, so it makes it look like nothing is taking place.

edge.
 
Va Tech was one of the places my son considered because they have one of the better ROTC and engineering/computer science programs in the nation. You have a medium size city of 26,000 young kids who are spread all over the large campus.

Any police force that enters a building with guns blazing and kills a bunch of the wrong kids is staffed by idiots. This was learned the hard way at Kent State. Parents don't like you to kill their children. They have invested many years of love to get those kids to college and will not forgive anybody who kills their child. Nor is it very good to try to live with having killed a bunch of innocent kids.

Out of the 26,000 kids how were the police to figure out which one to shoot? I think they did about as well as they could, given that they were not dealing with any rational person and events were unfolding so quickly and out of any normal event a policeman would ever expect to see.

This was a no win situation for the kids and the police.
 
I did a Google search for a time-line on the events (Link below):

9:45 a.m.
The VT PD received a 911 call of a shooting at Norris Hall, which contains faculty offices, classrooms and laboratories. VT PD and Blacksburg PD immediately responded to Norris Hall. Notice in leadership command center via our police rep of a shooting in Norris.

Upon arrival to Norris Hall, the officers found the front doors barricaded. Within a minute the officers breached the doors, which had been chained shut from the inside.

Once inside the building, the officers heard gunshots. They followed the succession of gunshots to the second floor. Just as the officers reached the second floor, the gunshots stopped.

The officers discovered the gunman, who had taken his own life. There was never any engagement between the responding officers and the gunman.


Now if someone has some other source I would like to know where the police "hung around"!
EDGE, 911 CALL WAS AT 7:15 AM FOR THE FIRST SHOOTING.
 
7:15am

Monday morning dawns with students getting up early to head to class.

At the West Ambler Johnston co-ed dorm, home to 895 students, there's some kind of incident, and shots are fired. Police are called and find two people dead. They conclude it was an isolated domestic dispute and that the danger is over.

8am

The doors of Norris Hall open for the day, as students enter the engineering building to go to class. Nothing seems out of the ordinary.

9:26am

With many students unaware of the violence in their midst, word of the dorm shooting comes in a widely distributed email that's received across the campus.

"Subject: Shooting on campus," the header reads.

"A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.

"The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case. Contact Virginia Tech Police at 231-6411.

"Stay attuned to the http://www.vt.edu/ . We will post as soon as we have more information."

As far as authorities are concerned, whoever fired the shots has escaped the sprawling grounds of the university and is gone. It is now a police matter and officials decide it's safe for classes to continue.

9:45am

It's now more than two hours after the initial shooting and the lines at the Blacksburg, Va. 911 outpost light up en masse. Panicked students call on their cell phones to tell authorities a man has come to Norris Hall and begun randomly firing weapons at people inside.

His first target is a professor in one of the classrooms. He then turns his weapons on the stunned students.

9:50am

Police stop a man they describe as a 'person of interest' in the dorm shooting. "That individual was an acquaintance of the female victim killed at West Ambler Johnston Hall," explains Police Chief Wendell Flinchum. "He was stopped and detained for questioning. As officers were interviewing him, the shootings at Norris Hall were reported. We're still looking to him for information as the investigation continues."

9:55am
A second email is sent out by university brass. This one is far more terse and a lot more chilling.

"Subject: Please stay put," it begins.

"A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows."

10am

Within minutes of the second email, the university starts phoning resident advisers and asking them to knock on the doors of classrooms and dorm rooms, to spread the word about the danger faster.

But the campus is huge - some 1,050 hectares in length, described by one official as the size of a small city - and getting to everyone in such a busy environment over such a wide area is almost impossible.

While all this is going on, a gunman continues to blaze away in Norris Hall, picking off victims one at a time in rapid succession. His motive remains unknown, but his methodical task is succeeding all too well. Dozens lie either dead or seriously wounded.

10:05am

Students trying to escape the carnage find chains on some doors, closing off their only escape routes. As the killer approaches, many break open windows or kick out screens, jumping several storeys to the ground in desperation, preferring broken limbs to the possibility of being gunned down.

10:16am

The University sends out a third email.

"Subject: All Classes Canceled; Stay where you are.

"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where there are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus."

Police are on scene, hustling shocked students off the property and away from the area, still unsure what they're dealing with.

Many are told to enter unaffected buildings and wait for the all-clear signal. Others are simply shooed off campus altogether. No one else is allowed on the premises.

As TV stations, networks and the web pick up the story, word starts spreading quickly - there has been a massacre at Norris Hall.

10:52am

The fourth and final email comes out of Virginia Tech's administration office. By now, just about everyone knows the worst has happened, as ambulances and police cars occupy the campus around the classroom building.

The email contains some details that would later prove to be false, but was based on the best information available as confusion swirled.

"Subject: Second Shooting Reported; Police have one gunman in custody

"In addition to an earlier shooting today in West Ambler Johnston, there has been a multiple shooting with multiple victims in Norris Hall.

"Police and EMS are on the scene.

"Police have one shooter in custody and as part of routine police procedure, they continue to search for a second shooter.

"All people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice.

"All entrances to campus are closed."

10:55am

First reports indicate 22 are dead and at least that number are injured.

But as the afternoon goes on, the scope of the tragedy escalates. The death toll rises to first 29, then 30, and finally settles at 32. The number of injured sits at around 15.

A doctor at one of the local hospitals indicates the gunman was extreme in his cruelty. He fired at least three bullets into every single victim, and all the wounded patients he examined were suffering from some kind of gun related injury.

"There were leg, arm, head, face (injuries), the more critical ones actually had head or facial shots. There were chest shots, leg shots, arm shots. He was just shooting to kill," relates ER physician Dr. Joseph Cacioppo.

11am

It has been more than three and a half hours after the initial shooting, when Norris Hall finally falls silent. The gunman saved his final bullet for himself, leaving the final bloody toll at 33.
 
My initial coments were from what I had seen on the national news. Cops standing around with pistols drawn standing in the street behind everything. I read the newspaper today and the reporting was much better. I don't blame the police or the gun for the incident. It was one man hell bent on a death toll. Sound like the timeline was pretty quick and the individual officers may not have arrived soon enough to be much help.

This story highlights the fact that NO ONE can relly on the police for protection, by the time the call comes and the response time is added, the horror has been done.

Looking at it from my perspective, every law abiding citizen who wishes to be armed should, anywhere they wish. This incident proves it and should be our call to action. Not the anti-gunners next gun hateing drivel.

The familys of the victoms have my sympathy and prayers.
 
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I would like to know where the police "hung around"!
EDGE, 911 CALL WAS AT 7:15 AM FOR THE FIRST SHOOTING.

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And your point is what?

That THE UNIVERSITY should have cancelled classes! Then I agree.

If your point is that the cops should have solved the first shooting in the 2 intervening hours, then I think that you just have a need to blame people. Perhaps You should offer your services to Law Enforcement......

edge.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen,

There is only one (read 1) person to blame for this and that is the little scum sucking maggot S.O.B. that pulled the the trigger.
Now the reason he was successful in carrying out his sick and twisted mission is a whole other story, where do I begin?

I'll tell you fellas something, if any one of those poor individuals (god bless them) were my kid or wife or brother or any family member for that matter, I wouldn't be sitting here typing this, as I'd probably be locked up in a padded room if ya know what I mean???
This old saying says it all, read it and remember it!

"AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY"

God Bless

Murf
 
My condolences to all involved directly or indirectly with this tragedy. I don't know if anything was done wrong or right in this case. Logic dictates to us that a dickhead like this guy is not going to be stopped very easily. Anyone willing to die for whatever they feel their "cause" is, is tougher to stop than a jealous husband. I do have a problem with : 1) How passive our country has become. As a group the male race from teen years to about 30-35 are a buch of *******. Not everyone but the majority I have run in to. 2) The damnned media always wants to blame someone. To them the dirtiest, ugliest point of view is the one to pursue for a story. Not only with tragedies as this but even with sporting events. The media in general isn't very much farther up the food chain in my opinion than some of the criminals.
We need to help these people grieve, we need to look at the way we are raising such a passive group of young men, we also need to quit feeding the media firestorm that always want to blame someone.
This isn't said to offend anyone it is just my opinion. I wish this kind of [censored] would never happen. It seems to me that if some of this aggression was expelled by these losers when they were younger, and if they learned how to take an *** whipping, Maybe, just Maybe ,they wouldn't go off like a time bomb when some pressure builds up.
 
why is a south korean national allowed to buy a handgun? especialy one with documented mental discrepensies. this was methodicly planned, with the mental state this kid was in, there was no way to stop him from trying, but we need a system that would keep him from getting the tools to carry it out according to his plans. his classmates, the police, the school all knew he was unstable yet they let it go, this happened because nobody got involved until the lead was in the air.
RR
 
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