Vertical Alignment between Scope/Rifle...??

[J E Custom]

The line of site and the line of the bore converge at some point depending on what distance you are zeroed as long as everything is level. This forms a triangle and so if you level the scope and cant the rifle the point of convergence will never happen if the rifle is zeroed, you will just adjust the windage to compensate for the error and force the line of bore to move to compensate .(The reason that if you cant the rifle even though the site and the rifle are set level with each other the point of impact will change as your distance changes.) you must adjust the windage if you increase or decrease the distance. ( I hope I explained that right)

This method is very hard to master and a level rifle and site are easier and less complicated. Practicing with the rifle level and using a scope level is the best way IMO and possibly canting the butt plate for comfort is the best of both worlds.

Iron sites can have a level attached to the rear site where you at it at the same time you are siteing some front sites come with a level on them also If using a scope and the level on the side of the scope distracts you, You can take a rear flip up scope cover and mount a small level on it that you look past while siteing.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Country Bumpkin]

Thanks everyone for the affirmation.

I'm going to go poke my gunsmith and make funny faces at him.

 

[doverpack12]

Go to Rokslide under the Long Range Hunting forum a guy with the user name danmayland started a thread and linked a couple videos on this subject. I have a friend who feels more solid when his rifle is canted a little so we are trying to figure this out as well.

 

[Canhunter35]

I was doing some thinking about this and put together some numbers if I was to run a canted rifle:
Using my 308, and say it's canted so the center of the barrel bore is 1/4" right of center of scope.
Zeroed at 100 means you will be .5" left at 200 as the bullet flight crosses line of sight. This is what I calculated when you factor in spin drift with my 308 and 168amaxs
1/4 Moa offset due to cant.
Zeroed at 100.

.5" left at 200- .38" from spin drift right= .12" left of poi

.75" left at 300- .86" spin drift right= .1" right of poi

1" left at 400 minus 1.56" spin drift=.56" right of poi

1.25" left at 500 - 2.52"spin drift=1.27" right poi.

My conclusion, factoring in the spin drift on right twist barrel and holding a can't for right handed, meaning your barrel is to the right of the scope, it cancels each other out and actually minimizes spin drift.

Maybe I did this wrong, I haven't actually canted my rifle, but it's certainly worth looking into. I always dial my spin drift and corealis on my scope and hold for wind, so it really wouldn't be much difference with slightly different dope due to your rifle being canted.

 

[codyadams]

I was doing some thinking about this and put together some numbers if I was to run a canted rifle:
Using my 308, and say it's canted so the center of the barrel bore is 1/4" right of center of scope.
Zeroed at 100 means you will be .5" left at 200 as the bullet flight crosses line of sight. This is what I calculated when you factor in spin drift with my 308 and 168amaxs
1/4 Moa offset due to cant.
Zeroed at 100.

.5" left at 200- .38" from spin drift right= .12" left of poi

.75" left at 300- .86" spin drift right= .1" right of poi

1" left at 400 minus 1.56" spin drift=.56" right of poi

1.25" left at 500 - 2.52"spin drift=1.27" right poi.

My conclusion, factoring in the spin drift on right twist barrel and holding a can't for right handed, meaning your barrel is to the right of the scope, it cancels each other out and actually minimizes spin drift.

Maybe I did this wrong, I haven't actually canted my rifle, but it's certainly worth looking into. I always dial my spin drift and corealis on my scope and hold for wind, so it really wouldn't be much difference with slightly different dope due to your rifle being canted.

In other words, it takes out some of your spin drift, but not all of it. So it makes a previously exactly quantifiable number, no longer precisely quantifiable. And if your shooting 800, 1200, 1500, a mile or further all it does is complicates things. Plus for a left handed shooter, it adds to spin drift. Good job running the numbers, interesting to look at.

Level your rifle, get an adjustable butt pad if you need. Best solution.

 

[Canhunter35]

In other words, it takes out some of your spin drift, but not all of it. So it makes a previously exactly quantifiable number, no longer precisely quantifiable. And if your shooting 800, 1200, 1500, a mile or further all it does is complicates things. Plus for a left handed shooter, it adds to spin drift. Good job running the numbers, interesting to look at.

Level your rifle, get an adjustable butt pad if you need. Best solution.

Easier for sure, but maybe it's the grip that also needs to be canted so he can properly hold a rifle. I've been playing with the idea of experimenting with canting a rifle, I've noticed the increased comfort in my wrist with a slight cant. Just haven't brought myself to adjusting a perfectly level scope lol

 

[carl1775]

Super novice shooter, but does it matter which degree left or right of plumb your rifle is when calculating for "spin drift?" Regardless of the rotation of the platform and its orientation to the aiming device are irrelevant. The rifling is still imparting the same amount of rotation across the same mass (bullet). You are just adding an added calculation to rise and drop, in the form of deflection, left and right. Even then, as the optics are canted across the y axis, the correction would appear as an arc and not a direct 1:1 adjustment. Or, am I way over thinking this? Any way, unless I was prepared to hit the range and create metered dope at a large breadth of ranges... it's probably easiest to keep the rifle and optics upright and level and fit the stock to your specifications.

 

[Ckgworks]

I've noticed the increased comfort in my wrist with a slight cant.

I mess around a bit with making my own stocks...... I have been toying with the idea of building a stock for a Swede 6.5x55 that has cast built into the butt, but also has the grip cast or canted out the same direction. It seems like a canted grip with a vertical butt would be pretty comfortable. Kind of like a wundhammer swell, but the whole grip instead of a bump. Keep it slim and light, but angled so your wrist doesn't have to get vertical. The main problem I see is for as much work that goes into making a stock by hand, I just haven't convinced myself that it just wouldn't be too weird! It seems that building a fitted stock would be the way to go to help the OP out, fitted that the gun is level and making contact with the shoulder and cheek without straining.

 

[Smokepoles]

I could be way off here and this might sound crazy but I could maybe see if its comfortable for you with the rifle laying completely sideways and the scope was a dead nuts 90* off your windage adjustments would be minimal until you get way out there. Might make for an interesting range trip to try it out anyway..

Another option that I'm sure wouldn't be cheap or aestetically pleasing but functional, hear me out here...
If you can figure the angle of cant you need to be comfortable I'm sure theres someone out there that can inlet a stock on an angle and weld some kind of angled trigger shoe or extension to compensate for it. I'm sure stock selections would be limited, maybe a chassis with the grip cut of and welded to the side If some redneck magic could get the trigger and bolt to function around the grip? I might sound like an idiot here but it makes sense in my mind without thinking too far into it. Good luck bud

 

[Country Bumpkin]

Pretty awesome group of people on here, some impressive brainpower went into these replies, and for a guy that none of you know.

I appreciate all of the attention you have given.

Being that it was a financial stretch to get this build in the first place I think I'm just going to level scope to rifle and train myself to adapt. I'm going to bank this thread into my "good ideas box".

 

[Chippewa]

"This forms a triangle and so if you level the scope and cant the rifle the point of convergence will never happen...
JE CUSTOM"

That makes sense now. Line of site needs to be directly on top of line of bore so gravity works with in plane of convergence. Thanks. Good discussions

 

[Country Bumpkin]

Well, I decided Not to adjust my scope just yet. It's currently NOT vertically aligned with my rifle. I just want to see what would happen out at further distance. I'm not currently comfortable shooting at game any further than 500 yards, so I shot my 10" square gong at that distance using my holdover reticle (I'm fortunate in that my reticle aligns perfectly with my accurate load if zero'd at 200, all the way out to 700 at elevations I typically hunt). At 500, I had a 4" group centered roughly 3" from center of gong. No wind, no mirage (I was shooting at dawn). Perfect!!!

Bear Time!!!

 

[Ckgworks]

Good to hear! Sometimes if it works for you, you just gotta roll with it....even if everyone else says your doing it wrong, or should be doing it different. I still wonder sometimes if the most important thing in shooting either archery or firearm, is just doing it the exact same every time....

 

[Country Bumpkin]

Well said, I have seen a lot of folks mention "having confidence" in their setup being key to success in the field. I don't know that anyone has expanded on that but I'd love to read a well-written article regarding that subject.

Even if aspects of the setup are unconventional, it might work for an individual resulting in confidence and dead critters. I know that my archery setup is not as "capable" as some of the high dollar bows and precise sights with super long and offset stabilizers.....but I know that at 40 yards I'll get broadheads into boiler room every time. Even at 60 yards on bedded animals I know it's a sure thing. I can't "outshoot" a lot of folks, but on game I have confidence to make it happen every time.

Right now, I'm very confident and comfortable with my rifle. I won't be entering the field with any doubts, wondering if I should adjust things.