Nighthawk
Well-Known Member
I agree, but I still don't like buying something outside the United States unless it is from Sony. Who does have stuff here too. I don't have anything against Japan anymore, but maybe my Grandpa did.
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US Optics
- Thread starter Nighthawk
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texas
Well-Known Member
Nighthawk speaking from experience when you go into the military you'll have to loose that attitude or you wont make it to retire
. A lot of countries are our allies and help support us in various adventures, yes they may have companies here in the states and the home office overseas but they do help.
If you want the best product and it's not made here then you will have to settle for second best.
Remember this " 1* " ... one as-t-risk no one but yours
If you want the best product and it's not made here then you will have to settle for second best.
Remember this " 1* " ... one as-t-risk no one but yours
Nighthawk
Well-Known Member
I'm just a jackass 17 year old. When I say things like that don't take it how it sounds. I don't have anything wrong with countries such as Japan. I just prefer to have things that are from here. A perference only, nothing more.
Nighthawk
Well-Known Member
Adding to my last post. When I said I was going into the Navy, I was't going there for what you might be thinking. Such as being the captain of a ship or something. I was going to be an Engineer but as an officer. The best scope if the one in your head. Or anything for that matter
texas
Well-Known Member
Not a problem and good luck on being and engineer in the navy.
Cat shooter
try to work for Japaneese company after you can understand that war is not over and they continue economy WAR with industry and trading
Japan is the leader in PRO BAN GUN that a fact not an idea , each time you purchase japanees stuff you increase the power of PRO BAN GUN .
Scope speaking now
US OPTIC .
if you forget the price you are able to shoot from 200 yards to 2000 yards without tapered base and other modifications .
You doesn't need variable power to shoot far a good SN6 22x with 35 mm main tube is around 2000$ that not 3000$ sure that US OPTIC SN3 with 50 mm main tube 80 mm front bell can kill you just by reading the price but no need for real long range shooting .
I agree that with old balvar and custom base you can get a good result but that stay used solution .
my entry choice for long range shooting is a
Leupold Premier 8.5x25 LR with CPC fine reticule or DOT if it is for pure target paper shooting , by this choice you just put 850 USD in the scope 200 USD in 20 MOA tapered base and 150 USD in a good set of tactical HD rings .
Sure that give you just around 100 moa of elevation but that work for long range not for ultra long range .
Same as in race car more you increase power more you incresae cost and I doesn't shoot the 2 miles each day .
Good shooting
DAN TEC
try to work for Japaneese company after you can understand that war is not over and they continue economy WAR with industry and trading
Japan is the leader in PRO BAN GUN that a fact not an idea , each time you purchase japanees stuff you increase the power of PRO BAN GUN .
Scope speaking now
US OPTIC .
if you forget the price you are able to shoot from 200 yards to 2000 yards without tapered base and other modifications .
You doesn't need variable power to shoot far a good SN6 22x with 35 mm main tube is around 2000$ that not 3000$ sure that US OPTIC SN3 with 50 mm main tube 80 mm front bell can kill you just by reading the price but no need for real long range shooting .
I agree that with old balvar and custom base you can get a good result but that stay used solution .
my entry choice for long range shooting is a
Leupold Premier 8.5x25 LR with CPC fine reticule or DOT if it is for pure target paper shooting , by this choice you just put 850 USD in the scope 200 USD in 20 MOA tapered base and 150 USD in a good set of tactical HD rings .
Sure that give you just around 100 moa of elevation but that work for long range not for ultra long range .
Same as in race car more you increase power more you incresae cost and I doesn't shoot the 2 miles each day .
Good shooting
DAN TEC
W
*WyoWhisper*
Guest
Even $2000 for a scope... $2000 dollars.. wow you can darn near get a new rifle ( new action trued , all the goodies, custom barrel etc. ) for that.. get the Lupy, rings and bases and some brass, powder and bullets for $3000!!!!!
I just can't justify the $3000 price tag... I just don't get it.... Ic ould sse if the glass was hands down second to none, it had an infared sighting system, ballistics computer, etc. but wow... I just don't see how they are better than the Nightforces or The Lupy's.... I read horror stories about teh service as well. If I pay $3000 for a scope the service rep better have ALL the time in the world for me and the scope should be fixed as new in less than 2 weeks. I read stories of guys who said it took months to get tehm fixed and they still wern't right....
I guess someone is gonna have to do alot of convincing me that $3000 is worht the price.
AS far as the bro ban gun stuff and the Japan issues.. heck one of the largest ranches out here is owned by a Japan Corperation. They have their hands in everything. The best way to fight the pro ban stuff is donate and support the NRA.. All gun owners need to be active in it. Coming from the legal fields.. The lawyers that the NRA has are very well schooled in the the gun issues and the best we can do is keep them funded!!
I just can't justify the $3000 price tag... I just don't get it.... Ic ould sse if the glass was hands down second to none, it had an infared sighting system, ballistics computer, etc. but wow... I just don't see how they are better than the Nightforces or The Lupy's.... I read horror stories about teh service as well. If I pay $3000 for a scope the service rep better have ALL the time in the world for me and the scope should be fixed as new in less than 2 weeks. I read stories of guys who said it took months to get tehm fixed and they still wern't right....
I guess someone is gonna have to do alot of convincing me that $3000 is worht the price.
AS far as the bro ban gun stuff and the Japan issues.. heck one of the largest ranches out here is owned by a Japan Corperation. They have their hands in everything. The best way to fight the pro ban stuff is donate and support the NRA.. All gun owners need to be active in it. Coming from the legal fields.. The lawyers that the NRA has are very well schooled in the the gun issues and the best we can do is keep them funded!!
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Hello Dantec
Here is the price break down in the USA for the Leupold LR, Rings and bases.
Leupold Longrange----------$740.00 Plus tax
30 MM- 50mm Objective--8 1/2X to 25X
Hart Tapored Base----------$ 75.00 Plus Tax
Weaver style 30MM rings
to fit the Hart base.-------$25.00 Plus Tax
Less then $900.00 USD total
90 MOA in any scope will get my 338/416 Rig IMP to 2500 "yards" using the 300 Gr Sierra MK at 3250 FPS.
The B&L has more then enough elevation adjustment and so does the Mark 4.
At 2000 "YARDS" so does the Leupold Longrange (56 MOA needed) with the tapored bases from Hart or RDP rifles.
Bases on the OLD B&L Balvar are just the Unertl standards which cost $25.00 to $35.00 each.
B&L Scope with Kuharsky rear base---$650.00
Unertl front and rear base----------$ 70.00
Quite a cost difference as compared to some of the much more expensive scopes and base setups which was the original post comment and concern of Wyo and which I agreed.
With the function of "old" B&L Balvar, Leupold LR, and Mark 4 (all of which are under $1000.00 Wholesale here in the States), for me I can buy two or three of these compared to only one of another brand. My choice, like most other shooters I know, would be to have two or three of these.
If the quality is really there in the US Optics scope, then it would possibly be worth going to it. For most of the shooting fraternity however, I do believe $2000.00 to $3000.00 is out of the question when the above mentioned scopes are available to the LR and Ultra LR shooters.
I'm in the ultra LR group of shooters and the Old B&L Balvar with Kuharsky base, Mark 4 and Leupold LR have the needed quality, features and service for me and at a cost that most any shooter can afford.
Most can't afford $2000.00 to $3000.00 for a scope after paying at least that amount for a rifle.
These are simply cost comparisons as per quality and it really is not my business what scope anyone buys for their rifle or how much they spend.
If someone wants to spend $10,000.00 for a scope that's great but, the fact remains, how much better is the more expensive scope and does the much higher cost justify buying it? If one buys it, I guess it does.
I just don't feel that the high cost of 200% or 300% more of one item compared to another that is VERY close in quality makes it a better product. Sometimes your just buying the name. Zeiss and Leica are good examples.
Hold up a pair of Kowa 8X--42MM Binoculars to the Zeiss of the same power and show me the difference in viewing quality. Someone proved this to me not long ago and at that time I "was" always a Zeiss user and buyer.
Good shooting always
Darryl Cassel
Here is the price break down in the USA for the Leupold LR, Rings and bases.
Leupold Longrange----------$740.00 Plus tax
30 MM- 50mm Objective--8 1/2X to 25X
Hart Tapored Base----------$ 75.00 Plus Tax
Weaver style 30MM rings
to fit the Hart base.-------$25.00 Plus Tax
Less then $900.00 USD total
90 MOA in any scope will get my 338/416 Rig IMP to 2500 "yards" using the 300 Gr Sierra MK at 3250 FPS.
The B&L has more then enough elevation adjustment and so does the Mark 4.
At 2000 "YARDS" so does the Leupold Longrange (56 MOA needed) with the tapored bases from Hart or RDP rifles.
Bases on the OLD B&L Balvar are just the Unertl standards which cost $25.00 to $35.00 each.
B&L Scope with Kuharsky rear base---$650.00
Unertl front and rear base----------$ 70.00
Quite a cost difference as compared to some of the much more expensive scopes and base setups which was the original post comment and concern of Wyo and which I agreed.
With the function of "old" B&L Balvar, Leupold LR, and Mark 4 (all of which are under $1000.00 Wholesale here in the States), for me I can buy two or three of these compared to only one of another brand. My choice, like most other shooters I know, would be to have two or three of these.
If the quality is really there in the US Optics scope, then it would possibly be worth going to it. For most of the shooting fraternity however, I do believe $2000.00 to $3000.00 is out of the question when the above mentioned scopes are available to the LR and Ultra LR shooters.
I'm in the ultra LR group of shooters and the Old B&L Balvar with Kuharsky base, Mark 4 and Leupold LR have the needed quality, features and service for me and at a cost that most any shooter can afford.
Most can't afford $2000.00 to $3000.00 for a scope after paying at least that amount for a rifle.
These are simply cost comparisons as per quality and it really is not my business what scope anyone buys for their rifle or how much they spend.
If someone wants to spend $10,000.00 for a scope that's great but, the fact remains, how much better is the more expensive scope and does the much higher cost justify buying it? If one buys it, I guess it does.
I just don't feel that the high cost of 200% or 300% more of one item compared to another that is VERY close in quality makes it a better product. Sometimes your just buying the name. Zeiss and Leica are good examples.
Hold up a pair of Kowa 8X--42MM Binoculars to the Zeiss of the same power and show me the difference in viewing quality. Someone proved this to me not long ago and at that time I "was" always a Zeiss user and buyer.
Good shooting always
Darryl Cassel
Nighthawk
Well-Known Member
Dantec, go to www.usoptics.com and read about their whole program. I think that if you can't afford them then don't get them and stick with the NightForce. But for me I can afford them and I will get them. I don't really see the point in arguing about it, for the most part the price.
see ya
see ya
Nighthawk
Well-Known Member
I know I have said this before but this is the lat time I will say it. The bst one is the best one for you. And that applies for everything. Awhile ago I read a post and someone said that with one of their US Optics or NightForce scopes they said they could see their hits at over 1000 yards. How is that possible?
W
*WyoWhisper*
Guest
I am not arguing about it.. I was just hoping some one could show me where the $3000 is justified. Or maybe a cost breakdown of why they cost $3000.... I still can't imagine paying that much for optics....
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Nighthawk
I can see the hits "of my bullets" at a lot further then 1000 yards when I'm long-range hunting, through "any" scope I use.
I can't see the "bullet holes" on a paper target at that range however. I think that's what you were speaking of?
I do believe the 50 cal shooters can see most all their bullet holes on paper at 1000 yards. Some shooters at Williamsport have said they saw their 30 cal bullet holes on paper at 1000 yards through their scopes.
I guess you could relate your $3000.00 scope to my $3000.00 Russian military laser Rangefinder? The fact is, the quality of that rangefinder is MUCH more superior to any other available at almost ANY price range unless it is an equal military version. There are some almost equal to it at $10,000.00 though. These to are military unit's or contracts.
As long as you can see the intended target reasonably well and have the elevation adjustment to click to that target, knowing the range is one, if not the MOST, important areas of LR shooting. Let's not forget an accurate rifle also. You do need "good" optics also.
I agree with Wyo concerning the cost of the US optics scope . A Leupold LR, Mark 4, the old B&L Balvar with Kuhasky mounts and even the 2" target Unertls will do the job for most "any" LR shots a person wants to make and still keep the price down at $1000.00 and below. If you add the Nightforce NXS the price will go up to $1250.00.
Probably the question most of us ask ourselves is---is the $2000.00 or $3000.00 price tag of the US optics scope honestly worth it compared to what is available at less then half as far as quality is concerned? I don't think anyone can hoestly answer that because there are not many US optics scopes out there to make a good overall comparison.
I look at it this way---- Since the US optics scope cost at least twice or three times as much and if the quality in design and optics are twice or three times better then any other scope out there, I'll buy one.
At my age, these old eyes need all the help they can get.
I think it all depends on how much a person enjoys his sport and what "HE" decides to spend on any item "HE" chooses.
Many new shooters to the sport however, don't have the funds (like some) to buy items such as scopes or laser rangefinders at a price of $3000.00 each.
Maybe something with a bit less quality or cost will do very well for them.
Good luck to you and let us know how the new scope works out. I understand they grind the optics here in the States but, some part of the coating procedure is sent abroad? Japan?
I looked through one but never had it mounted on one of my rifles.
Ian---Have you tested this scope to any degree? I know Warrens group uses the US optics and they speak highly of them.
Darryl Cassel
I can see the hits "of my bullets" at a lot further then 1000 yards when I'm long-range hunting, through "any" scope I use.
I can't see the "bullet holes" on a paper target at that range however. I think that's what you were speaking of?
I do believe the 50 cal shooters can see most all their bullet holes on paper at 1000 yards. Some shooters at Williamsport have said they saw their 30 cal bullet holes on paper at 1000 yards through their scopes.
I guess you could relate your $3000.00 scope to my $3000.00 Russian military laser Rangefinder? The fact is, the quality of that rangefinder is MUCH more superior to any other available at almost ANY price range unless it is an equal military version. There are some almost equal to it at $10,000.00 though. These to are military unit's or contracts.
As long as you can see the intended target reasonably well and have the elevation adjustment to click to that target, knowing the range is one, if not the MOST, important areas of LR shooting. Let's not forget an accurate rifle also. You do need "good" optics also.
I agree with Wyo concerning the cost of the US optics scope . A Leupold LR, Mark 4, the old B&L Balvar with Kuhasky mounts and even the 2" target Unertls will do the job for most "any" LR shots a person wants to make and still keep the price down at $1000.00 and below. If you add the Nightforce NXS the price will go up to $1250.00.
Probably the question most of us ask ourselves is---is the $2000.00 or $3000.00 price tag of the US optics scope honestly worth it compared to what is available at less then half as far as quality is concerned? I don't think anyone can hoestly answer that because there are not many US optics scopes out there to make a good overall comparison.
I look at it this way---- Since the US optics scope cost at least twice or three times as much and if the quality in design and optics are twice or three times better then any other scope out there, I'll buy one.
At my age, these old eyes need all the help they can get.
I think it all depends on how much a person enjoys his sport and what "HE" decides to spend on any item "HE" chooses.
Many new shooters to the sport however, don't have the funds (like some) to buy items such as scopes or laser rangefinders at a price of $3000.00 each.
Maybe something with a bit less quality or cost will do very well for them.
Good luck to you and let us know how the new scope works out. I understand they grind the optics here in the States but, some part of the coating procedure is sent abroad? Japan?
I looked through one but never had it mounted on one of my rifles.
Ian---Have you tested this scope to any degree? I know Warrens group uses the US optics and they speak highly of them.
Darryl Cassel
dear nighthawk
see your bullet impact is just a mecanical problem when you far the TOF ( time of fly of your bullet ) is bigger than the time you take to resight your gun if you resight fast enought you can see your bullet heat the target ( a rock for example ) that not really a problem of quality optic .
for the US OPTIC scope choice I agree and I am happy that it is possible to shoot long range without a 2000/3000 $ in optic and that US OPTICS is not the only solutions .
no need to be rich to shoot far but if shooters with money income big enought can or want purchase US OPTIC with not I f they are happy I am happy .
But never forget that own a rifle and be a skill shooter is not the same it is always better to think in global cost a long range equipement or ( ultra long range ) is not only a scope and a rifle , you need more equipement : bullet powder spare barrels ...
that always better to purchase all items to shoot ( and shoot lot of ammo ) rather to watch the rifle in the gun rack .
If I have a SN9 that to buily my 338/50 rifle for 2 miles shooting ( make a longer post on my 338/50 )with 400 rounds barrel life that not my al days shooting rifle most of rifles are equiped whith Leupold / Premier on tapered bases with good rings , but I have several barrels for all my rifles and all the stuff to shoot ( reload is a need in long range / ultra long range ) by this way I fit used barrel for practice or windy day shooting .
Any shooter will be never be able to purchase skill and knownledge so best way to learn is to shoot and to shoot a lot with a real rifle and improved it with to time .
good shooting and enjoy long range
DAN TEC
see your bullet impact is just a mecanical problem when you far the TOF ( time of fly of your bullet ) is bigger than the time you take to resight your gun if you resight fast enought you can see your bullet heat the target ( a rock for example ) that not really a problem of quality optic .
for the US OPTIC scope choice I agree and I am happy that it is possible to shoot long range without a 2000/3000 $ in optic and that US OPTICS is not the only solutions .
no need to be rich to shoot far but if shooters with money income big enought can or want purchase US OPTIC with not I f they are happy I am happy .
But never forget that own a rifle and be a skill shooter is not the same it is always better to think in global cost a long range equipement or ( ultra long range ) is not only a scope and a rifle , you need more equipement : bullet powder spare barrels ...
that always better to purchase all items to shoot ( and shoot lot of ammo ) rather to watch the rifle in the gun rack .
If I have a SN9 that to buily my 338/50 rifle for 2 miles shooting ( make a longer post on my 338/50 )with 400 rounds barrel life that not my al days shooting rifle most of rifles are equiped whith Leupold / Premier on tapered bases with good rings , but I have several barrels for all my rifles and all the stuff to shoot ( reload is a need in long range / ultra long range ) by this way I fit used barrel for practice or windy day shooting .
Any shooter will be never be able to purchase skill and knownledge so best way to learn is to shoot and to shoot a lot with a real rifle and improved it with to time .
good shooting and enjoy long range
DAN TEC
TeamSasquatch
Active Member
It's always nice to see that the US Optics vs the world debate reaches far beyond the Sniper boards...
I was recently given the oppurtunity to test and evaluate an ST10. I own Leupolds, B&L's and some others... I can honestly say without a doubt that the clarity and quality differences are noticeable within the USO...Needless to say at the end of my test period, arrangements were made and the scope stayed with me...
The SN3 is one of the higher end USO's, however that's not really a fair statement, cause even the baseline ST10 (895 MSRP, but not real world price) is a very high end scope. Add a 45MOA per rev knob, and your dam near in paradise...
Some people can, and some people can't justify the expense...same as some can and some can't justify the expense of a 500 dollar Mcmillan stock, so they get a Choate stock, some drink Coke, some drink Pepsi, I prefer German beer.
Last time I checked US Optics was 100% american made...
Build your rig any way you want, be proud of it, when someone gives you a ration of ****, give him the finger tell him to **** off, and send him packing....But most importantly, go shoot and have fun.....
Take Care,
Bruce
I was recently given the oppurtunity to test and evaluate an ST10. I own Leupolds, B&L's and some others... I can honestly say without a doubt that the clarity and quality differences are noticeable within the USO...Needless to say at the end of my test period, arrangements were made and the scope stayed with me...
The SN3 is one of the higher end USO's, however that's not really a fair statement, cause even the baseline ST10 (895 MSRP, but not real world price) is a very high end scope. Add a 45MOA per rev knob, and your dam near in paradise...
Some people can, and some people can't justify the expense...same as some can and some can't justify the expense of a 500 dollar Mcmillan stock, so they get a Choate stock, some drink Coke, some drink Pepsi, I prefer German beer.
Last time I checked US Optics was 100% american made...
Build your rig any way you want, be proud of it, when someone gives you a ration of ****, give him the finger tell him to **** off, and send him packing....But most importantly, go shoot and have fun.....
Take Care,
Bruce
