US 869 Lot to Lot differences

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

This LRH stuff has been a pain in the *** since I discovered it a couple of years ago. It's cost me $, time, anxiety and lots of time on the mountain /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

This whole thread ought to be deleted. It does nothing more than reveal my learning curve and just how ingrained the old throw some powder in, seat a bullet and point and shoot can become after a few decades. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

What I've found out is simply that this 8# lot of powder is a bit slower than the 1# lot.

I loaded up two loads one w/the 1# lot and the other with the 8# lot. Everything was exactly the same. The 1# went 3353. The 8# went 3268 this with the 169 RBBTs.

I then went on to shoot a 0.3" 200yd group followed by a 1 MOA turret adjustment that put the shot spot on. Average fps = 3280, ES = 30, SD = 15.

Ok, I'll quit whinnin' and go see if I can find some yotes!

 

[41mag]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

[ QUOTE ]
"It does nothing more than reveal my learning curve and just how ingrained the old throw some powder in, seat a bullet and point and shoot can become after a few decades. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


I then went on to shoot a 0.3" 200yd group followed by a 1 MOA turret adjustment that put the shot spot on. Average fps = 3280, ES = 30, SD = 15.

Ok, I'll quit whinnin' and go see if I can find some yotes!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Roy,

don't sweat the small stuff. I was in a very similar situation, not only with the loads, but also with the **** 30" long barrel. When you go from shooting standard factory rifles with up to 24" tubes to something as precise and long as the .270 AM is, it is definately going to throw you a curve. Not only did I have to adjust the loads for the differences in our conditions to what most others are getting, but I also had to learn to shoot that rig at the same time. Sort of like changing more than one thing at a time in a load while working it up, your just not quite sure if it's the load, the gun or you.

Sounds like you really have a handle on it now though. Keep up the good shooting and find you a yote to clear out some frustrations on.

 

[hoghound]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Roy, I know exactly what you are talking about, the crap stinks and velocity is all over the place. Makes it tough to get a real good BC. Using 92.5 of H-869 was getting velocities in strings like this: 3278,3339,. At 94.5 was getting 3322,3376,3297. What kind of s--t is this. That's why I started tinkerin with AA8700 and told you I would post something after a little more testing. So far I'm impressed but I want to check out the temp sensitivity.

270Am
169 WC
Fed 215
95grs. of AA8700
70*
30.9
68%
3328,3325 on lands
3313,3318 with 10k jump
3312,3308 with 20k jump

Tim

 

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Wonder if we could get Richard to make some 200+ grs in 277? Maybe in an off moment (yeah, like he has some)he could squirt out a few...

In my 338 RUM US 869 is achieving ESs in the +/- 1s and 2s w/the 300gr SMK.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

I have a pound of 869, haven't shot any yet, was waiting till I get this deer hunting out of the way to test it did open it up and take a whiff, smells like powder, same as the other stuff I have.
I was looking for something less temp sensative than WC872, but it only affects things when its hot, doesn't seem to slow down much when its cool/cold, may just stick with it long as I'm not missing!
JS

 

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

I went on a sniffing expedition to all of the local stores that sell US 869. Every 1# and 8# cannister sniffed smelled just like mine. Almost but not quite on par with sniffing an open bottle of finger nail polish remover.

It shooting great w/169s in the AM. I'll have to try some in the PM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Tim/TX

Here's this afternoon's numbers.

195 WCs

95 gr US 865 - on the lands 3097/3106/3057
95 gr US 869 - 20K Jump 3080/3083/3047
95.5 gr US 869 - 20K Jump 3090/3067/3097 Touch of stiff bolt lift on the 3090/3097 shots.

No primer pocket expansion.
Same three cases used for all shots. Weights 277.1/277.4/277.4
Temp 42.2
Hg 25.384 (29.824 @ sea level)
Hum: 58%
Solid overcast

The low velocity shot was not usually the widest shot in the group. Groups were poor. @ 200 yds two shots were at about 0.7" the third one made the groups average about 1.6". Smallest group was 1.4" (on the lands) largest group was 1.7 with stringing (shots in straight line, up and to the left) 20K jump and sane load as the 'on the lands'.

 

[hoghound]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Very good information Roy, That's what I was talking about having a little more to work with. Ther ain't no way I can try H-869 with the 195's down here, it's just to fast in my opinion to even waste time and money on. But if you could gather some info with H-869 and the 169.5's it would be of great help.

I'm using WC-872 with the 195's, and H-869 with the 169.5's.

I have the 195's at 3250 with 94grs. of WC872 in 72* temps.
I'm going to push the envelope a little this weekend with the 195's and AA8700 to try to get 3350. I have touched 3400 with 872. My thinking is to have the 195's going 3350-3400, and the 169.5's 3300-3350 and could pretty much use the same drop dope.

Tim

 

[Chawlston]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Hello,

Do you turn your case necks? If not you may have a case that has a thinner wall and consequently less pressure and less velocity.

James

 

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Chawlston,

I turned the necks on the first batch of cases. Twas a mistake as the neck tension was too low.

On these three cases I used the Wilson 270 neck reamer. I have consistent and sufficient neck tension per handle pressure when resizing.

Per Kirby, I FL size each shot but don't bump the shoulder.

Tim/TX

H-869 too fast? I'm thinkin' it a schoshi bit too slow... thus the thought for something like a 215 gr WC??? Or am I thinking backwards again?

95gr/20K jump = say 3082 -- 95.5gr/20K jump = say 3093. That's 0.5gr about powder for 13 FPS and just a bit of pressure indication (bolt lift)????

Up here the 169 @ 3250 and the 195 @ 3100 (I'll settle for anything over 3000) is so flat shooting its almost embarrassing. With a 300 yd zero the the drop is pretty much 16.1 MOA @ 1K which is one full turn plus one moa on my scope. Heck, even I can keep track of that.

BTW when your bbls get shot out it ought to be about the time I'll want to put together a 270 WSM Striker project. Wanna sell half a barrel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

FYI, Ramshot Magnum is way way too fast for the 270 AM and either bullet. 195 WC and 82 grains - no pressure most probably just below max load. 84 grains, the bolt opened stiffly and the rubber mallet was used to complete the operation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Too dark to Chrono.

 

[hoghound]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

Roy, what kindof BC are you getting on the 169's and 195's up there.

169's @ 3300 give me a BC of .62
195's @ 3250 has a BC of .65

I'm able to get good fast numbers but no high BC numbers like yall get up there. Don't get me wrong I'm not dissatisfied be any means. I mean where in the world are you gonna find a 277 bullet with a BC close to 7. Thanks to our good friend Richard up north that made it possible. I heard tell he is working on a 200grainer for the 277 caliber. Don't think I will need them though. If I can get the 195's 3350-3400 with the lower SD I really think I can hang with the 7AM and just might surpass it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Hey, when are you coming hog huntin with me and Mike. We'll have a blast, I s--t you not.

Tim

 

[royinidaho]

Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences - Hey Kirby

I was told that a 0.74 would be real close for the 169. @ 3250 its tracking pretty much spot on to 500 meters.

I was also told that 0.91 would be good for the 195. It 'seems' to track right along with the 169 to 500 meters @ 3090 MV.

The weather fronts have been moving through here about every 3 or 4 days with high winds coming and going between. Just a few hours in between with no wind and sometimes those times are at night and other times they on days I can't shoot.

When there is no wind for a brief period I hit the back yard 200 yd range but there are still cattle out to 1K plus the swanps have thawed again.

Its a 20 min drive to the shooting club range but by the time everything gets set up out to 500 meters the wind is blowing again.

Last time out, I had to tie a rock to the center of the tripod to keep the chrono from blowing over. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Still thinking about the hogs. Maybe middle of Jan. Not sure. Depends on bidness.

 

[royinidaho]

Learn\'d something yesterday Re: US 869 Lot to Lot differences

If a fella (me) could just open his mind a bit quicker he'd sure same some time and $, but would it be so much fun.

If I'd of done the ladder test thing I'd have learned this sooner and Richard wouldn't have so many of my $. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Shooting my 270 AM with 195s I got fixated on 3100 fps mv for some reason. Its stuck in my knoggin that the more FPE is better, always. But what is sufficient. I guess I'm just caught up in my own "stinkin thinkin"

After doing every thing that I knew of to get the 195 WC to shoot up to my accuracy expectations and having no luck and getting very frustrated I let go of the 3100 fps requirement. Hell, the 195 @ 3000 FPS MV give just over 2100 FPE @ 1K. Do you need more than that for a Muley or occasional Elk? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Check this data:

Grns - VEL - ES - 200yd Group
95.0 - 3112 - 169 - 2.32" 10, 3 shot groups.
94.5 - 3105 - 46 - 1.57"
94.1 - 3096 - 26 - 1.71"
93.6 - 3081 - 15 - 2.4"
93.1 - 3088 - 41 - 1.1"
92.6 - 3058 - 31 - 0.72"

To my thinkin there was no significant drop in velocity from 95 to 93.1 grains (throw out the extreme spread velocities and the 95s are the same as the 94.5s) while group size consistently shrunk (except for the 93.6 group /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

I'll verify the lower powder weight load this morning then I'll have to order more WCs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

The small change in average velocity for the seemingly fairly large change in powder weight may be my lack of familiarity with such large capacity cartridges.

For a fella that has gone through 9 episodes of the 7-yr itch there still is a lot to learn. It irks me that GG has got such an early start /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

=============================================================
Edited from here down:

Well so much for that idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Just got back from the back yard shooting 92.8 gr US 869 and 195 WCs off the bench @ 200.

Velocities: 3116/3085/3064
Avg: 3088
ES: 52

Group: 0.9" Horizontal 2.0" Vertical

Low group shot: 3085
Mid group shot: 3116
High Group shot: 3064

24*F
78%
25.756 @ 4450
30.196 @ Sea Level
Zero wind.

All equipment/loads for all the above shots & groups were fully acclimated. That is, stable at ambient conditions.

Potential problems.
Poor temp compensation on the chrony
Spastic US-869 burning rate
Erratic ignition (Have used GMs, 250s, Rem 9 1/2s all act the same.
I just can't shoot!

Why does it shoot the 169.5s so darn well and the 195s so erratically? Maybe I ought to dump the bench and shoot prone from bipods.