UPDATED: Head scratching day at the range

[bamban]

Yeah those days are over for me

Always fun to look back. Nice picture

 

[Rosebud]

I have no virgin brass left, but I have plenty of factory loaded I could just use. Hunt is still 3 months out though. When I got this rifle you couldn't get brass, the only thing I could do was buy the factory load, shot a few boxes to break it in and it didn't care much for the load, that gave me some brass to work with. I will look for some more and try that out, after today session I think I am almost there.

Good luck, post pictures. I'm jealous, haven't hunted out West in a decade.

 

[Eric Musgrove]

Always fun to look back. Nice picture

I should have posted this one shooting the Garand off hand at the Nationals, I bet that would have get you reminiscing.

 

[bamban]

I should have posted this one shooting the Garand off hand at the Nationals, I bet that would have get you reminiscing.

Dang right, time worth reminiscing. Mid field Viale.

Forgot now what year, 2005 or 6 must have been, missed P100 with M1 - 97, 98 in the slow fire, sight ran down in rapid 300. 2 Xs, 2 10s and then the rest straight down X ring wide.

2012 was my last match at Viale. M1a Match. Asked SAI to engrave my name, match name. Still unfired going to my grandson, my namesake.

M1a match 300 yards standing was a load of fun

 

[Eric Musgrove]

TODAYS UPDATE: I decided to take some advice and weigh some cases and selected some with-in a grain of each other. Also once fired, I started back at 58 of H1000 and went up to 59.4 in .2 gr increments. What ever the anomaly was disappeared. But it is interesting to look at the speeds side by side from both days, there is some thing odd that happened the other day but at this point I am going to move forward with the new data. Here is the link to the data, the forum jumbled it up and made it hard to read. https://1drv.ms/w/s!AlVOSXqUuPJ26FfUQNRoEmArtcBT?e=KpRLhe


RECAP
July 15th Test July 20th July 22nd
H1000 59.0 H1000 H1000
1. 58.0 -2892 1. 2982 58.0 -2917
2. 58.2 -2949 2. 2969 58.2 -2956
3. 58.4 -2911 3. 2969 58.4 -2956
4. 58.6 -3129 Ejector marks 58.6 -2949
5. 58.8 -3086 heavy bolt lift 58.8- 2962
6. 59.0 -3129 59.0 -error go figure
7. 59.2- 3137 59.2 -2982
8. 59.4 -2969 59.4 -2930
9. 59.6 -3003 *No pressure signs
10. 59.8 -3023 Shot remaining 5 loads of 59.0 grs left 11. 60- 3030 over from the 20th.
No heavy bolt lift, no ejector marks First 2 error then 2976, 2969, 2976
*No pressure signs

While digesting data I decided to way the brass with the ejector marks and the others loaded the same and shot today. The cases were almost identical in weight with just a few 10th off.
Range is covered and benches in shade, temps all 80-85F, even used same bench. Todays speeds are more realistic than the 15th. I also shot 8 rounds of the Hornady factory load, average was 2948 fps. Although group was 2" 100 yards and just over 4" at 200 yards although the wind had picked up by then. It seem at this point all I have done is duplicate factory load speeds but with MOA or better accuracy, not really impressed at all but will continue to test and see. Seems like testing on the 15th had some bad chrony readings. As for the 20th I think I will just forget about it is so odd to me. Attached pics of the remaining cases that had the same 59.0 grs as the 20th.
*Thanks for all the suggestions, I have been doing this since the mid 90s but I know there are others with more knowledge out there and its good to get a second perspective on things every now and then.

 

[Eric Musgrove]

Dang right, time worth reminiscing. Mid field Viale.

Forgot now what year, 2005 or 6 must have been, missed P100 with M1 - 97, 98 in the slow fire, sight ran down in rapid 300. 2 Xs, 2 10s and then the rest straight down X ring wide.

2012 was my last match at Viale. M1a Match. Asked SAI to engrave my name, match name. Still unfired going to my grandson, my namesake.

M1a match 300 yards standing was a load of fun

View attachment 381217

Wow great shooting, I am prob in that bulletin may 3 pages back lol. 2004 was my first trip to the Nationals I was lucky to go distinguished there and get pinned on stage wearing dress whites lol. and 2012 was also my last....that's crazy small world. I am happy with my Trophy Rifles from over the years. P100 was always a few points higher. I cant imagine using a scope and doing it now.

 

[TXmountainhurnter]

One simple thing easily overlooked is making sure ur chrony is level each session. Even a small variation from front to back can give false velocity readings. I glued a bubble level on top of mine.

 

[spladi]

2 days prior I did a test with my 6.5 PRC( Browning X-bolt Pro 24" barrel) using H1000, Hornady brass (all that I could get) 143gr E-LDX and Win LR primers, seated to 2.950(mag length) I started at 57 grs and had loaded up to 60gr in .2 gr increments
I hit a fantastic node at 58.6 - 3129 fps, 58.8- 3086 fps, 59.0 3129 fps. 59.2 3137 These three shots were also a bug hole in the target see shots 10,11,12. The barrel was clean prior to the test and I fouled it with 3 rnds of the Hornady factory 143eldx, which also registered over 3000 fps that day, which was about 200fps faster than when the barrel was new that made me go hmm? It also shot a decent group which before it did not seem to like. I shot all of the loads taking along time for the thin fluted barrel to cool between shots.
At 59.4 grs the velocity started to drop off down to 2969 and then around 3000 until the last shot of 60 grs which was 3197, I think this was barrel heat. I had no pressure signs up through the 60 grs. Temp around 80-85 by the time I got to the end. I went home poured over the data, decided to load up 59 grs and go back shoot a group at 100 and 200 yards. I also cleaned the bore again.
2 days latter I returned and fouled the bore with 2 shots of 57.0 and then started my 3 shot group at 100 with 59 gr. The speeds were 2982,2969,2969 temps about the same as before, had pressure signs with ejector marks on all 3 cases and the group was horrible. I put the gun in the truck and came home. I am still not sure what to do, or what is going on. Barrel wasn't fouled enough? What caused the pressure when I had none before with a full grain higher? Crony is garbage? I was so excited about this load and not sure what to do next. Wanted to use it for an up coming ID Bull elk hunt.
Sorry for the long post, tried to eliminate some questions we all usually ask.

I had similar issues although much more extreme in a .270 Winchester, but I wasn't using a chronograph. One of the rounds provided to me I was firing blew a primer then I looked much deeper into the ammo, turned out that there was a very similar looking powder mixed in with what I thought was all 4350, it was 4198, So maybe you have a little contamination in your H1000, just saying it's a possibility.

 

[Eric Musgrove]

I had similar issues although much more extreme in a .270 Winchester, but I wasn't using a chronograph. One of the rounds provided to me I was firing blew a primer then I looked much deeper into the ammo, turned out that there was a very similar looking powder mixed in with what I thought was all 4350, it was 4198, So maybe you have a little contamination in your H1000, just saying it's a possibility.

I am working from an 8lbs jug that I have had for many years, only 1 powder on the bench at a time is one of my rules that my dad pounded in my head over 30 years ago.

 

[Eric Musgrove]

One simple thing easily overlooked is making sure ur chrony is level each session. Even a small variation from front to back can give false velocity readings. I glued a bubble level on top of mine.

Thanks I will do the same.

 

[Stonyman88]

I am not a big fan of the ladder system. For the following reasons:

1) Your data point is a single round per load. A sub 20 fps extreme spread is not bad so consider you realy don't know whether shot 1 was at the bottom of its ES and shot 2 was at the top of its ES. So what looks like 5 fps could really be 25 fps.

2) Ladder's are typically done at 200 yards, if you have a 3/4 inch rifle (not bad) and two charge weights that look like they are 1/4" apart, the respective groups could generate groups centered 1.5" apart.

3) 200 yards introduces greater shooter error than 100 yards.

Try using Optimal Charge Weight Method at 100 yards and for that size case, I would go in .6 grain incrmenets. To cover all your bases load Load 1 = 57.6, 58.2, 58.8, 59.4, Load 5 = 60.0. Shoot them in a round robin order on 5 different aiming points; i.e, Shoot Load 1 thru 5, then Load 5 thru 1, then load 1 thru 5 each on its own repsective aiming point. You should find two loads with a very similar groups size and a very similar POI relative to POA. Split the difference between those two loads. See attached sample target below. On the target below, load 7 and 8 (upper right) are the optimal loads so the final load is then 46.2. In this case I used .4 increments becuase the base load is in the 40s.

I have found this method to be much more reliable and consistent than the ladder method.

MED Great info, I may have missed something but your loading for ??? just wondering what your shooting , I'm loading 6.5 C and 6.5 PRC, the PRC shots .20 groups, at 100 and time to work up a load for mine, the groups were the Hornady out of the box 143gr, ELD-X and the same in Match. Have lots of empty's now, and boxes of the 143 gr ELD-X and match seeds.

 

[med358-boise]

Stonyman,

The pic was just an example of the process which happened to be for a Mosin Nagant in 7.62x54r.
I currently load for: 6.5x55, (2) 7mm-08s, 284 Win, (2) 308 Win, 30-06, 300 WSM, 8.59 Galaxy, 9,3x62. I have in the past also loaded for 270 Win, 300 Hawk, 8x57, 338-06, 35 Rem, 358 Win, 358x57 Imp, 9,3x64, and (2) 375HHmag.

For all of the above, I have used the OCW method and to date have always been able to find a sub MOA load, usually between .66 and .875. Having lived in Kalifornia for a good part of my life, I started using Barnes bullets about 20 years ago and have stuck with them.

I usually load a couple of "safety" check rounds at minimum and minimum plus 1 grain then start my OCW at ~ the mid point and work up in .4 or .6 grain increments depending on whether the loads are in 40s or 60s grain charge weight.

I have also found starting 60/1000 off the lands has consistently been the optimal seating depth. I don't consider myself an accuracy freak, so if I run the OCW protocol as described above and I get a sub .8 group, I generally stop.