davewilson
Well-Known Member
as they would say on hee-haw, don't blink. on second thought you better stay away from that 375, might break you in half!
Ultimate 338 cal Gun
- Thread starter lerch
- Start date
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Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Here is a pic of some of the Wildcat bullets including the 325 gr FB as many have probably never seen this bullet. Most impressive.
From left to right:
Speer 225 gr BTSP for size comparision, 252 gr ULD RBBT, 300 gr ULD RBBT, 325 gr FB and the big boy, the 350 gr ULD RBBT.
For a close to moderate range dangerous game bullet, the 325 would be my very first choice. The ogive is not as trim as the ULDs but there is no doubt this bullet would carry a LONG way if it needed to. The jacket is very heavy as well making it an idea sub 200 yard bullet for dangerous game when used in the big 338 magnums. It would be totally useful in anything in the 338 RUM class and above in my opinion.
I would have no reservation at all to hammer a cape buff in the shoulder with this bullet out of a 338 Kahn at any range under say half mile, even right up to the muzzle.
Just though you might want to see these.
While we are on the topic of the ultimate 338 rounds, here is a sneak peek of the 338 Allen Mag.
From left to right again:
7mm Allen Mag(338 Lapua based), 338-408 CT virgin case ready for fireforming, 338 Allen Magnum loaded with 300 gr ULD RBBT and then the 408 CT parent case. No data yet, just got the barrel work finished to the point it can be fired.
Filled to the mouth with AA8700, the virgin case holds 166 gr of powder, the 338 AM holds 178 gr filled to the mouth.
I am not saying the 338 AM is the ultimate 338 magnum wildcat. BD408 has the 338 Sniper Tac and Bruce Baer has the 338 Big Baer which all are basically the same thing in a different package, just another options to murky the waters. More to come soon.
Kirby Allen(50)
From left to right:
Speer 225 gr BTSP for size comparision, 252 gr ULD RBBT, 300 gr ULD RBBT, 325 gr FB and the big boy, the 350 gr ULD RBBT.
For a close to moderate range dangerous game bullet, the 325 would be my very first choice. The ogive is not as trim as the ULDs but there is no doubt this bullet would carry a LONG way if it needed to. The jacket is very heavy as well making it an idea sub 200 yard bullet for dangerous game when used in the big 338 magnums. It would be totally useful in anything in the 338 RUM class and above in my opinion.
I would have no reservation at all to hammer a cape buff in the shoulder with this bullet out of a 338 Kahn at any range under say half mile, even right up to the muzzle.
Just though you might want to see these.
While we are on the topic of the ultimate 338 rounds, here is a sneak peek of the 338 Allen Mag.
From left to right again:
7mm Allen Mag(338 Lapua based), 338-408 CT virgin case ready for fireforming, 338 Allen Magnum loaded with 300 gr ULD RBBT and then the 408 CT parent case. No data yet, just got the barrel work finished to the point it can be fired.
Filled to the mouth with AA8700, the virgin case holds 166 gr of powder, the 338 AM holds 178 gr filled to the mouth.
I am not saying the 338 AM is the ultimate 338 magnum wildcat. BD408 has the 338 Sniper Tac and Bruce Baer has the 338 Big Baer which all are basically the same thing in a different package, just another options to murky the waters. More to come soon.
Kirby Allen(50)
lerch
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Well so far there has been some great info here but know I have to change it up a little bit
I know most of the big 338 cartridges so i am wondering what would be the best one for brown bear?????? I am fixed on the 338 cal.
I am leaning toward the 338 Kahn pretty hard but I am always open to suggestions.
thanks
steve
I know most of the big 338 cartridges so i am wondering what would be the best one for brown bear?????? I am fixed on the 338 cal.
I am leaning toward the 338 Kahn pretty hard but I am always open to suggestions.
thanks
steve
RDM416
Well-Known Member
Lerch,
I have a 338 Kahn that Kirby built for me last year. Kirby did a great job on the rifle. You should easily be able to get 3000fps with a 300grn pill, maybe 3100. I have been having good results with H50BMG and 300grn SMKs. I'm waiting for Richard to get his 338 dies back and make some 350grn RBBTs to try next.
I hope that Holland QD brake can tame it down enough. 9lbs sounds a little light to me, but if you can take it.....go for it. My Kahn is just a tad heavier, almost 19lbs scoped and battle ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I have a 338 Kahn that Kirby built for me last year. Kirby did a great job on the rifle. You should easily be able to get 3000fps with a 300grn pill, maybe 3100. I have been having good results with H50BMG and 300grn SMKs. I'm waiting for Richard to get his 338 dies back and make some 350grn RBBTs to try next.
I hope that Holland QD brake can tame it down enough. 9lbs sounds a little light to me, but if you can take it.....go for it. My Kahn is just a tad heavier, almost 19lbs scoped and battle ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
RDM416
Well-Known Member
Kirby,
This is the first I have heard about the 338AM, are you holding out on me or what?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Are you far enough along with it for me to consider it for my project you have in the shop now??
How much of a gain do you expect over the Kahn?
This is the first I have heard about the 338AM, are you holding out on me or what?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Are you far enough along with it for me to consider it for my project you have in the shop now??
How much of a gain do you expect over the Kahn?
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
JD338,
To be honest all those bullets in the pic have lead right to the tip. The 300 and 350 gr ULD RBBT have a finer meplat whereas the 252 and especially the 325 have more of an exposed lead tip. The 325 had the widest meplat of them all but again, this is a game bullet, a serious game bullet!!
Not sure what it would do in the RUM. If I had to guess I would say 2700 fps or around there.
When you figure a 375 H&H will do 2600 fps with a 300 gr bullet, thats some pretty serious big game taking ability even if you are limited to 2600 fps. I suspect you could break this level easily though with at least a 26" barrel.
That is just an educated guess though so take it for what you will. These babies are waiting for a ride in the 338 AM where I will be looking for 3400 fps in the 40" pipe!!!
That will be just for testing purposes, for serious work I am only looking at the 350 gr ULD RBBT and maybe a 375 gr ULD RBBT if I can talk my good friend into humoring me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
Kirby Allen(50)
To be honest all those bullets in the pic have lead right to the tip. The 300 and 350 gr ULD RBBT have a finer meplat whereas the 252 and especially the 325 have more of an exposed lead tip. The 325 had the widest meplat of them all but again, this is a game bullet, a serious game bullet!!
Not sure what it would do in the RUM. If I had to guess I would say 2700 fps or around there.
When you figure a 375 H&H will do 2600 fps with a 300 gr bullet, thats some pretty serious big game taking ability even if you are limited to 2600 fps. I suspect you could break this level easily though with at least a 26" barrel.
That is just an educated guess though so take it for what you will. These babies are waiting for a ride in the 338 AM where I will be looking for 3400 fps in the 40" pipe!!!
That will be just for testing purposes, for serious work I am only looking at the 350 gr ULD RBBT and maybe a 375 gr ULD RBBT if I can talk my good friend into humoring me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Black Diamond 408
Well-Known Member
Lerch:
I just want to interject my perspective, I would go with the Kahn, i have built lots of 338-378IMP over the years, no one has ever said nothing but good things about it. Long range, heavy hitting power, accurate! I have one built for a elk hunter that wanted a light carry rifle. I used a Bauska action, kevlar stock, Hart bbl 25" It came in at 7# without scope. With brake it is easy to shoot! He wanted to shoot the barnes 175 X bullets, last year i talked him into the 300grn MK, Clover leaf groups at 500yds. He is very excited! 2800fps is his speed.
I dont know about this "Kirby" guy ya'll talk about...lol
just kiddin Kirby. I'll send all my business your way, that way i can play with my projects!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I just want to interject my perspective, I would go with the Kahn, i have built lots of 338-378IMP over the years, no one has ever said nothing but good things about it. Long range, heavy hitting power, accurate! I have one built for a elk hunter that wanted a light carry rifle. I used a Bauska action, kevlar stock, Hart bbl 25" It came in at 7# without scope. With brake it is easy to shoot! He wanted to shoot the barnes 175 X bullets, last year i talked him into the 300grn MK, Clover leaf groups at 500yds. He is very excited! 2800fps is his speed.
I dont know about this "Kirby" guy ya'll talk about...lol
just kiddin Kirby. I'll send all my business your way, that way i can play with my projects!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
RDM416,
I have been keeping it relatively quiet for a while. Basically because I was waiting for the receiver to get here. Hopefully I can start spending some weekends playing with it and all the other crazy ideas I have going.
As far as your project is concerned, Nesika got pretty squemish when I asked them if their receiver would handle the 408 CT case size. Then finally told me NO.
We would need either a BAT or one of BD408s fancy Ti receivers to build on for this size of a round. To be honest, I think the Kahn is a more practical choice unless you get into some pretty exotic receiver weights and things like that.
I think we could comfortably get into a 338 AM in the same weight class as your Wby 338 Kahn, in the 20 lb range. BD408 is using some very interesting things to keep his 338 Sniper Tac in the sub 15 lb range, he would be da man to ask about a light weight 338-408 wildcat.
That said, I am going to test my round and see how it performs and then if it shows enough promise, attempt to build a 16 lb class of rifle just to see how it would perform. More to come this spring and summer.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
I have been keeping it relatively quiet for a while. Basically because I was waiting for the receiver to get here. Hopefully I can start spending some weekends playing with it and all the other crazy ideas I have going.
As far as your project is concerned, Nesika got pretty squemish when I asked them if their receiver would handle the 408 CT case size. Then finally told me NO.
We would need either a BAT or one of BD408s fancy Ti receivers to build on for this size of a round. To be honest, I think the Kahn is a more practical choice unless you get into some pretty exotic receiver weights and things like that.
I think we could comfortably get into a 338 AM in the same weight class as your Wby 338 Kahn, in the 20 lb range. BD408 is using some very interesting things to keep his 338 Sniper Tac in the sub 15 lb range, he would be da man to ask about a light weight 338-408 wildcat.
That said, I am going to test my round and see how it performs and then if it shows enough promise, attempt to build a 16 lb class of rifle just to see how it would perform. More to come this spring and summer.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
BD408,
Now, don;t be doing that!!! We both need to work so that we can both play some /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
I get cranky when I can't play. Course sometimes I get cranky when I am playing and things don;t work out like they should!! I am sure you know how that is.
So keep on working, no need to push any work my way at this time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
One of these days we will have to talk Shawn C into building himself a 338-408 and we will have to get together and make some real noise!! We should bring the 50's too!!!
I know a Canadian that would be more then willing to shoot all of our ammo up, that way he could sell us more bullets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
Later,
Kirby Allen(50)
Now, don;t be doing that!!! We both need to work so that we can both play some /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
I get cranky when I can't play. Course sometimes I get cranky when I am playing and things don;t work out like they should!! I am sure you know how that is.
So keep on working, no need to push any work my way at this time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
One of these days we will have to talk Shawn C into building himself a 338-408 and we will have to get together and make some real noise!! We should bring the 50's too!!!
I know a Canadian that would be more then willing to shoot all of our ammo up, that way he could sell us more bullets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!
Later,
Kirby Allen(50)
Fiftydriver,
178gr powder capacity WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you and BD408 will be able to burn up barrels faster than me and goodgrouper. the good thing for you two is you can screw on your own barrels but for me and GG we will be sending a 338 barrel to Montana for a set-back of 4" as soon as the reamer hits the doorstep.
if you were not allready on Dan Lilja's Christmas card list you will be now.
UB
178gr powder capacity WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you and BD408 will be able to burn up barrels faster than me and goodgrouper. the good thing for you two is you can screw on your own barrels but for me and GG we will be sending a 338 barrel to Montana for a set-back of 4" as soon as the reamer hits the doorstep.
if you were not allready on Dan Lilja's Christmas card list you will be now.
UB
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
JD338,
I would think you could get to 2700 fps in your rifle with its 26" barrel.
The 338 AM is really not even remotely in the same class as the 338 RUM or 338 Edge. These two have roughly 110 to 117 gr of total case capacity filled to the case mouth with AA8700.
In comparision the 338 AM holds 178 gr of the same powder filled to the case mouth. Top usable powder charges for the 338 RUM and Edge will again be 95 to 100 gr range. The 338 AM will be in the 150 gr powder charge range I am predicting with top loads. This is an estimate but should be close.
This pic shows the 338 RUM on the left, 300 RUM in the middle(338 Edge parent case) and the 338 AM on the right. As you can see there is a distinct difference in case size, not only in length but also in diameter as well.
Just for comparision, the RUM cases have a head and shoulder diameter of 0.550" and 0.525". The 338 AM has a head and shoulder diameter of 0.635" and 0.617".
This oic of the case heads shows the difference as well. The 408 CT based wildcats require custom receivers because of their length and diameter.
Performance comparision, in 32" barrels you will get a 300 gr bullet to 2850 to 2950 possibly 3000 fps in the Edge. The 408 based 338 rounds will push the same bullet to near 3400 fps in this barrel length with top loads. Most data I have seen though is held to the 3300 fps range.
In my test rifle for the 338 AM, I am looking to break 3500 fps with a 300 gr ULD RBBT with its 40" barrel. More importantly I am hoping to break 3300 fps with the 350 gr ULD RBBT.
Just because the 408 based 338 wildcats are the largest practical 338 caliber wildcats out there currently does not mean they are best for your needs. For a big game rifle, it is VERY hard to beat the 338 Edge level of performance which is identical to the 338 Lapua.
When you increase to the size of the 408 case, you have many other things that must be considered and paid for in the rifle build. Price increases with every step of performance increase in most cases.
So the ultimte 338 for one job may be a totally different and even much smaller design that what may be the ultimate for another use. For this posts original question, The 338 Kahn is as large as I would recommend.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
I would think you could get to 2700 fps in your rifle with its 26" barrel.
The 338 AM is really not even remotely in the same class as the 338 RUM or 338 Edge. These two have roughly 110 to 117 gr of total case capacity filled to the case mouth with AA8700.
In comparision the 338 AM holds 178 gr of the same powder filled to the case mouth. Top usable powder charges for the 338 RUM and Edge will again be 95 to 100 gr range. The 338 AM will be in the 150 gr powder charge range I am predicting with top loads. This is an estimate but should be close.
This pic shows the 338 RUM on the left, 300 RUM in the middle(338 Edge parent case) and the 338 AM on the right. As you can see there is a distinct difference in case size, not only in length but also in diameter as well.
Just for comparision, the RUM cases have a head and shoulder diameter of 0.550" and 0.525". The 338 AM has a head and shoulder diameter of 0.635" and 0.617".
This oic of the case heads shows the difference as well. The 408 CT based wildcats require custom receivers because of their length and diameter.
Performance comparision, in 32" barrels you will get a 300 gr bullet to 2850 to 2950 possibly 3000 fps in the Edge. The 408 based 338 rounds will push the same bullet to near 3400 fps in this barrel length with top loads. Most data I have seen though is held to the 3300 fps range.
In my test rifle for the 338 AM, I am looking to break 3500 fps with a 300 gr ULD RBBT with its 40" barrel. More importantly I am hoping to break 3300 fps with the 350 gr ULD RBBT.
Just because the 408 based 338 wildcats are the largest practical 338 caliber wildcats out there currently does not mean they are best for your needs. For a big game rifle, it is VERY hard to beat the 338 Edge level of performance which is identical to the 338 Lapua.
When you increase to the size of the 408 case, you have many other things that must be considered and paid for in the rifle build. Price increases with every step of performance increase in most cases.
So the ultimte 338 for one job may be a totally different and even much smaller design that what may be the ultimate for another use. For this posts original question, The 338 Kahn is as large as I would recommend.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
