Two rifle battery choices

[catorres1]

So I am thinking of getting a couple new rifles and though I solicited and got a lot of advice on another board, I wanted to check a couple things here because it is more focused on long range shooting, something that interests me.

I am looking at a lighter weight hunting rifle in 7mm or 300 win mag, that will also be fun to shoot at the range until it overheats or I do. I want to pair that rifle with a heavier weight range rifle for classes and range fun in either 243 or a 6.5 of some sort.

I do want a factory rifle in both cases, it would be nice if the two were close to identical.

So here are my questions that might help me make my choices on calibers.

For the first rifle, the Vanguard I like comes in a 1 in 10 for the 300, but only a 1 in 9.5 for the 7 mag, which on berger's site would seem to preclude the 180 grain target bullets. Or is this a fast enough twist? Part of me leans toward the 300 anyway as I handload and can load it down and generally like bigger bullets, but I am still not sure, considering the number of people recommending the 7 mag over the 300.

For the smaller caliber, it gets more dicey. From what I see, no one makes anything faster than a 1 in 9.25 for the 243, so Berger would seem to indicate that anything over a 90 grainer would be understabilized. Since I want to shoot 1k or so with this rifle at targets, this would be a bad deal, especially considering the BC's are not sky high . In addition, I would have to do something other than another Vanguard, as I think the twist was like 1 in 10 or even slower.

So would you then pair a 6.5 instead? It seems there are no twist problems with factory offerings there.

And how quickly do the barrels heat...ie, the Weatherby I like only has a #2 contour barrel. I would have preferred a 3 so it will cool and be stiffer. Remington does not seem to offer a 6.5, so I could move to a savage, but I was hoping to have the same stock as my larger rifle, and I really prefer that high monte carlo due to my body build. If it were not for the weight of the barrel in the Weatherby, I could end up with a nice matched set, which some would say would be the best thing to do. Others would suggest it's not so critical.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[HARPERC]

I'm hoping to take a couple of classes next year, and want to minimize wear to my hunting rifles. Tikka T3 CTR in a 260 would be my factory choice.

 

[catorres1]

I'm hoping to take a couple of classes next year, and want to minimize wear to my hunting rifles. Tikka T3 CTR in a 260 would be my factory choice.

I had not thought of the Tikka, I'll have a look at that one.

My thoughts were based on talking to two instructors for courses I wanted to take. At the time, I was going to use an even more powerful rifle than the 300...they both said the same thing, which was we won't get much done as recoil is too high and fatigue will make learning quickly cease. So they suggested a second low recoil round for training and higher volume practice.

I started out thinking a 223, but it's not the greatest 1k round.

So I have been looking at other options.

I could just download a 300 to near 308 levels....I suppose....but then there is the heat factor. My primary rifle will have a #2 contour to keep rifle weight well down...in Texas, it gets really hot, really fast....and cool down takes forever.

So I thought a second rifle with a heavier, stiffer barrel, in a lighter caliber, would be cool to have on the line so I could switch out between the two.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Heavy barreled .308 Win for close range hunting and plinking. And 7mm STW or .300 Ackley Mag for mid to long range work

 

[HARPERC]

I had not thought of the Tikka, I'll have a look at that one. I started out thinking a 223, but it's not the greatest 1k round.

The Tikka .223 "Scout" has been a solid performer for me, but at distance it gets noticeably harder to stay with the bigger bullets.

The CTR is also supposed to come in .308, nothing wrong with a .308 either.

 

[catorres1]

Just took a look at Tikka's website. The CTR is only a 20" barrel but is nice. But the varmint and moreso, the super varmint. Oh, I like those. Especially with the adjustable comb.

If it did not weigh so much, I'd look at one of those in 300 as well.

But the Vanguard I am speccing will weigh just at or just under 7lbs without scope. With my scope, I'll be at around 8.4 lbs. That's where I want to be for a rifle I have to carry any distance, 9 at the most.

But if I can't get the exact same rifle to match the 300, which it appears will not be possible, this is something to consider.

 

[Varberger757]

What's about one factory rifle (take down system) and two barrels? You'll have the real big advantage of being used to your personal trigger- and stock settings, which you can't estimate high enough! My proposal for you is a Merkel Helix in both 223 and 7mmRM. Check it out!

 

[catorres1]

I checked out the Merkel's. I am not in that tax bracket, for sure...not even close. Beautiful rifles though!

So shifting to twist a bit....what kind of twist does one want for a long range 7mm? Maybe that's another thread, but that might seal the deal on the first rifle, as the Weatherby has a 1 in 9.5....and if I want to be able to shoot any 7mm's, looks like I need at least a 1 in 9.

And on a 243...looks like for a 1k gun, maybe a 1 in 8 is required?

 

[MudRunner2005]

So shifting to twist a bit....what kind of twist does one want for a long range 7mm? Maybe that's another thread, but that might seal the deal on the first rifle, as the Weatherby has a 1 in 9.5....and if I want to be able to shoot any 7mm's, looks like I need at least a 1 in 9.

You will want a 1:9 twist if you plan on shooting up to 180 grain bullets in your 7mm. Or a 1:8.5" if you plan on shooting the new Berger 195 EOL's when they finally become available, or the 190 Matrix bullets.

 

[catorres1]

Gotcha. Well the rifle I want only comes in a 9.5 in 7mm, but does come in a 10 in 300...so that would seem to push me towards the 300.

Another question, 223 for 1k steel...pretty much futile?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Gotcha. Well the rifle I want only comes in a 9.5 in 7mm, but does come in a 10 in 300...so that would seem to push me towards the 300.

Another question, 223 for 1k steel...pretty much futile?

Capable, but not recommended. I'm far from an expert, but it would definitely not be my first choice of caliber for 1K steel.

Look into the .260 Remington for effective 1K steel and light recoiling with decent barrel life.

The 9.5" twist 7mm is capable of shooting 168 grain bullets and lighter... My main deer rifle is a 7mm RemMag with a 26" 9.5 twist barrel. Shoots the Berger 168 VLD's like a dream. And very fast. 3,115 fps MV average. Literally knocks deer on their *** inside of 300 yards.

 

[catorres1]

Yeah, I think the 260 is probably the best bet. 243 would be good, but the factory twists are all too slow from what I see.

Unfortunately, the 260 does not come from Weatherby the way I want it...barrel contour is a sporter.

So I have the choices of a 260 with the stock and trigger that would match my 300/7mm, but with a sporter weight barrel; a 223 that matches perfectly, but it's not so good for the long range shooting I want to use it for; or a 260 from Savage...which, while it gets me the twist and barrel contour I want, does not give me a bench/practice rifle that would match my main rifle.....I hate having to make compromises.

If I won the lottery, I would not have to.

Decisions decisions....

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Cat... I understand your wanting to match guns but I've got a couple of savages.... One in 223 and the other a 308. Now, I'll be quite candid in saying I'm pretty sure that they look and carry the same, however, when I get down behind the trigger, shooting them is like apples and oranges... And yet not. I find that my savage 223 and my tikka t3 tactical actually feel more similar when I sit down behind each for shooting. It doesn't make sense... But there you are.

I believe that for me, the most important thing is not the gun I am shooting, but how the trigger breaks... take-up, weigh and how crisp it is. Helps me to predict when she's going to fly. My 2 cents is perhaps to find the guns you want... Regardless of make, and then check to see if you can install the same trigger in both. Timney is what I use... And jard, but there are other very respectable triggers available that other members prefer and would recommend. Good luck! Part of the fun is deciding!!gun)

 

[catorres1]

Thanks for that advice! I think I could eventually get them on the same trigger, a Timney for example. Frankly, I am fairly certain that there is no way I can get the two matching at this point. Each manufacturer offers something different that I want, so it's just gotta work that way, so it's good to hear that this has worked for you. Right now, it looks like ultimately, I'll probably getting what is essentially (but not exactly) a range certified Weatherby backcountry for the 300. Then probably a savage, maybe a predator hunter or perhaps a long range hunter in 6.5 creedmore or 260 rem.

Of course, that could change tomorrow, but when I look at the ballistics, especially in terms of wind drift, these two match up nicely. I did consider a 308, but the 6.5 just got closer as far as wind goes, and people tell me this is where it gets most difficult way out there.

Anyway, I still toy with the idea of a 223 instead, that low recoil and cheap ammo, and just fun to shoot has real appeal for me. But I may pick one of those up in a year or two for my sons to use for practice as well, so that might wait. But still have not decided for sure.

I am fairly certain that I will not get a 243, however. For what I want, long range shooting, I just can't get the twist I need to shoot the bullets I need to shoot those kinds of distances.