Tuning for long range

[singleshothunter]

I figured I'd take some time to share how I go about tuning a new rifle intended for long range hunting. I'll say up front I have tried every method out there and have settled on this one for a few reasons. First, it works. It has always provided me with loads that perform. Its fast and easy. Most times I can tune a hunting rifle in less that 20 rounds. I have 100% faith it the method, when I was still competing in 1000 yard Benchrest I would shoot a ladder the night before every match and load exactly what the ladder told me. That year I set 2 group aggregate world records. It would not have happened without the ladders.
When you get your new rifle, load a light load and go put 100 rounds on the barrel. Use this time to get the scope setup, break in the barrel, and learn the rifle. Most barrels will change in that first 100 or so shots and you will be re-tuning if you find a load right away. I have been down that road so many times that I just dont try and cheat it anymore. You should also take some cases and work up .5 grains at a time until you hit pressure (stiff bolt lift). If you MUST do some load work before 100 rounds just play with seating depth but dont fall in love. Once you have that first 100 down and you know where pressure is in your barrel it time to load a ladder test. I would have to assume we have a basic knowledge of what powders, primers, and bullets seem to work well in the case we're loading for. I will usually pick 2 powders and load ladders with powder charges spaced .6%. So for a case that holds an 80 grain charge you would go in .5 grain incidents. Load about 10 cases ending just under your max. Example for a 28 Nosler with an 89 grain max
84
84.5
85
85.5
86
86.5
87
87.5
88
88.5

Usually this will show you your upper node and the next one down. I didn't mention seating depth. Here I will say I usually always find accuracy just in or just off the lands. I will start with a seating depth that I know that bullet seems to like. Certain bullets do in my experience seem to like the similar seating depths across many rifles. I will list a few examples
215 Breger Hybrid .010" off
195 Berger Hybrid .015" off
300 Breger hybrid .015" in
180 Berger Hybrid .020" off
If its a new to me bullet and there is no good data I will usually start .010" off, unless its really long like the 300 or 230, then I will put it .015" in. For some reason those long heavy bullets have responded very well to being in the lands. I have never pulled a bullet, I do not use very light neck tension. I have found most rifles will shoot best with more. I typically start with .003". Do nothing to the inside of your necks other than brush with a stiff nylon brush, do NOT remove the carbon from inside your necks.
Im no writer and have bounced around, but I will tell you how to perform the ladder now. So you have your 10 loaded cases. Color from the ogive to the tip with a sharpie. Blue, red, green, and yellow are best. Record the colors so you know what they are and you will have to repeat their use because we dont have 10 colors to use. But you will be able to tell what are what, as the hotter ones usually will climb the target. Use your judgement on the range at which to shoot. If things are decent I will go to 600 if they are not great I will go to 300, but never less. You need to use your chrony for this. Use a clean white piece of paper, butchers paper works well or the back of a target. Fire all the rounds at the same aim point. adjust your scope so they print off to the side so you can read them better. With ladders we are looking for bullets to climb, then for 2-3 shots to stop and form a group before starting back up the target. Those spots where the shots level out also have to correspond with a flat spot in velocity to work for a hunting rifle. We are looking for the spot the barrel has given us leeway in load variations as well as a flat spot in velocity which will provide us with good ES. You then pick a powder charge in the middle of that flat spot and adjust seating depth if needed to achieve the accuracy your after.

I must note that this method requires a well built rifle that is capable of good accuracy. We are depending on the rifle to pet every shot where it should go. I would not recommend shooting a ladder with a 1moa rifle, there will be too much built in vertical to make sense of it. Also you must be capable of breaking good shots, and choosing a day worthy of testing. If you test on a bad day with highs winds or mirage you will end up chasing your tail. It does not need to be perfect, but it needs to be decent. This was a lot of typing but I guarantee you if you do it in a controlled manner you will love the accuracy and efficiency of the process. Im sure I missed something, but Im just tired of typing at this point. Im happy to answer any questions...

 

[singleshothunter]

This whole thread is fantastic information. Alex, please help with a few basic questions:
Do you use bushing FL dies or standard full length?
Do you use a dry lube like Imperial graphite inside the neck to ease passage of the expander ball back through the neck?
Would it be better to remove the expander ball and use a mandrel on the neck after FL resizing-and same question-Imperial dry lube or nothing?
I've been getting wider SD on load work up for 7mm Rem mag than I'd like and think you can help me a lot. Thank you.

 

[OFFISHN]

Great thread! After reading I decided to go out and perform my own ladder test with 2 different bullets and 2 different powders. I did not take along the chronograph but what I learned was very interesting. I believe I have a window to now focus my time and energy in. Just as info: I full length size (with lube) then nylon brush the inside neck. I use a Redding comp seating die then confirm jump on each round before using a concentricty guage to obtain alignment. Disregard extra un labeled rounds in target. All was done at 300 yards.

 

[CaptnC]

.....most cases will not rechamber with out sizing.....set back amount is not as importance as keeping them consistent.

I know my post (#64) is real long but what I'm getting at is the cases run very smoothly through the die. In those 4 rifles the bolts closes the same on fired or sized-unfired cases.

Barrel nut has seen a lot of run out on neck sized only cases...but I think I've got it...quoting Alex "not as importance as keeping them consistent."

Thanks been a great thread...annealed my first cases yesterday. Only did 8 but I'm going to run them though the die today to see how they turn out.

 

[Timeout]

Ladder test for 6 Dasher hunting rifle, 23" #3 Contour Krieger 1 in 8 twist barrel, Leupold VX-R/LRV reticle 4-12X50 scope. Scope adjusted so aim point is not showing on the photo. No pressure signs. Sorry that I did not make notation for velocities on the target. The only velocity I know now is for the load that I chose. Which node would you guys pick? I'll keep my choice secret for a bit. Should also mention Rem 7 1/2 primers since I did not write that on the target.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Been thinking about this for a while just never thrown it out the...but with this conversation turning right in this direction.

I have two new rifles that have been chambered professionally...not factory! My thoughts are that these two rifles have tight chambers. When I full length size cases there is very little resistance compared to brass from my factory guns.

I'm assuming when they head spaced the barrels they set them very tight. So when I head spaced my Savage 264wm build I purposely set the head space very tight. Brass from it glides through the FL sizer also. But I also have 264 once fired brass from other guns that have the resistance that I'm used to feeling. I've reloaded since the late 70's all factory chamber guns so that is what I'm used to feeling when full length sizing .

So right now I have 4 guns that I feel tight chambers/minumal head space...I head spaced my 6.5x55 M48 mauser build the same way...when the bolt just barely would close I stopped. Douglas did my 6.5-06 and ER Shaw is my 300wm all of them the only real resistance is the expander ball pulling out of the neck.

So...if I'm right and is there really any need to neck size onlyf or long range accuracy ?

Headspace is just the depth of the chamber. Thats all. You correct for it by threading your die in and out. What you are noticing is the difference between a properly cut chamber and a wallowed out/fat factory chamber. Setting headspace on a savage only makes the case longer or shorter, it will not effect tightness/diameter.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex,

What is the dimensional relationship between your brass and chamber?

How much clearance do you run for the neck, case head area etc,,?

How much do you setback your cases when you fl size each firing?

Are you running custom fl dies to match up to your chamber reamer etc?

It varies with the chamberings. Lets go with a 28 nosler.
I like the see .003" at the shoulder and .001" at the base for sizing, Necks .004" minimum on a 7mm, .002-.003" bump at the shoulder, no need for custom dies usually.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex,

Do you lube your cases before FL sizing?

You have to.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Ladder test for 6 Dasher hunting rifle, 23" #3 Contour Krieger 1 in 8 twist barrel, Leupold VX-R/LRV reticle 4-12X50 scope. Scope adjusted so aim point is not showing on the photo. No pressure signs. Sorry that I did not make notation for velocities on the target. The only velocity I know now is for the load that I chose. Which node would you guys pick? I'll keep my choice secret for a bit. Should also mention Rem 7 1/2 primers since I did not write that on the target.

View attachment 83028

Well, Im cheating because I know that case. Dont go with the top 2, I am suprised you got there, very few barrels will take that much powder and I bet you end up with pressure issues eventually. Load around 5,6. .3 is a coarse ladder in a dasher. Your low node is good too if your not after speed. 7,8 went out of tune/vertical.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

This whole thread is fantastic information. Alex, please help with a few basic questions:
Do you use bushing FL dies or standard full length?
Do you use a dry lube like Imperial graphite inside the neck to ease passage of the expander ball back through the neck?
Would it be better to remove the expander ball and use a mandrel on the neck after FL resizing-and same question-Imperial dry lube or nothing?
I've been getting wider SD on load work up for 7mm Rem mag than I'd like and think you can help me a lot. Thank you.

Fl bushing dies
I usually do not use the ball, if you want to expand your necks because of irregular thickness I would use a mandrel. I do not use lube unless the cases are new.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

View attachment 83026 View attachment 83027 Great thread! After reading I decided to go out and perform my own ladder test with 2 different bullets and 2 different powders. I did not take along the chronograph but what I learned was very interesting. I believe I have a window to now focus my time and energy in. Just as info: I full length size (with lube) then nylon brush the inside neck. I use a Redding comp seating die then confirm jump on each round before using a concentricty guage to obtain alignment. Disregard extra un labeled rounds in target. All was done at 300 yards.

The first 3 on the top ladder and 4-7 on the 2nd. Chrony data would solidify it. But I think your safe to load in the middle and work seating depth if needed. Keep your barrel cool.

 

[OFFISHN]

Ladder test for 6 Dasher hunting rifle, 23" #3 Contour Krieger 1 in 8 twist barrel, Leupold VX-R/LRV reticle 4-12X50 scope. Scope adjusted so aim point is not showing on the photo. No pressure signs. Sorry that I did not make notation for velocities on the target. The only velocity I know now is for the load that I chose. Which node would you guys pick? I'll keep my choice secret for a bit. Should also mention Rem 7 1/2 primers since I did not write that on the target.

View attachment 83028

I would go with 5,6,7,8 window. My 2 cents.

 

[OFFISHN]

The first 3 on the top ladder and 4-7 on the 2nd. Chrony data would solidify it. But I think your safe to load in the middle and work seating depth if needed. Keep your barrel cool.

Thanks Alex. That's the same thing I was thinking. I never had a heavy bolt lift in either test or showed visual signs of high pressure. (No primers turned to thumb tacks) I was thinking of repeating both by 2 more grains at 1/2 grain increments and cronies as well.

 

[Vlooi]

You have to.

How do you remove lubrication from the outside of the case?