Tuner brakes…

[stiff neck]

If you can't keep it in tube what's the point?

EC has said most users don't need to adjust it, they're best off finding a tune and leaving it there. The OPTION to make micro adjustments to stay in perfect tune is there, but it takes experience and testing to figure out how to do that for your particular setup.

 

[SSG Graybush]

I used a ATS tuner on my 6 XC. Took my groups from .5 to .25. Tuning the ATS tuner is ez, you see the groups close just like a well shot load development test of jump. I did a 2 shot groups, found the best "tune", and retested. Took about 20 rounds.
And it has stayed tuned for over a year now. So whoever said that it's not proven repeatable is incorrect. They work. But you should find a good load first, good ES, good MOA, then tune it. I highly recommend the ATS tuner, but am sure EC's works well too.

 

[Mikecr]

My opinion:
Powder tune is different and separate from barrel tune.
With a barrel tuner, you have the option of seeking a lowest ES charge (as seen across a chrono), and then dialing tightest precision with that charge (as seen on target), without affecting ES.
Otherwise, we all know that best precision does not usually line up with lowest ES.
They're separate, with barrel tune trumping powder tune.

I also believe that most shooters have not explored this potential.
Instead there seems a mindset that a tuner is only for fine alternate adjustments to a tune otherwise achieved or limited with.
And most people load developing for best precision are attempting to lock in on barrel tune, with powder, regardless of ES.

This is not strong opinion from me, as I've only worked with one barrel/gun utilizing the BOSS system.
In that case, it worked VERY well -as I describe here.

 

[skipglo]

Litz's test was so seriously flawed, it can be completely ignored. I don't know why EC didn't call him out directly on Litz's total failure to follow the instructions. The test was doomed to fail before the first shot was fired.

There were several major faults. First, EC clearly directs to set the tuner to 0 and then shoot in increments of 2 marks. So 0,2,4,6,8, etc. There are 9 marks per barrel rotation, and a tune is normally found in the first rotation but you can try more. But Litz never tested that way. Instead, he only tested the first mark of each full revolution, for example mark 0,10,20,30,40, etc. Of those rotations, he chose the best one and then proceded to micro adjust the settings, example mark 30 three full turns shot best so then he tried 31,32,33, etc. This alone nullifies the "test". EC NEVER said that's how to test. Litz tested a method that bobody EVER claimed works.

Litz did not say if/when he adjusted the tension screws, he likely did for each mark. EC says never adjust them because that throws off the tune and it's not repeatable.

Litz's guns were not probably accurate enough to notice a fine tune. Litz says he struggled to keep his control groups in the 0.4" to 0.6" range. Maybe his guns were not accurate enough, maybe it was the ammo, maybe it was the shooter. You have to have an accurate system in order to see the difference fine tuning makes.

There's more faults, but I'm tired of typing.

And all that typing could give you a.... Stiff Neck!

 

[Turpentine21]

I have a 6.5 Grendel that I have done a lot of load development with and it always shot OK but nothing spectacular. It was quite picky about what it liked. I decided to give a tuner a try with the best load for accuracy, SD, and ES that I had come up with for the rifle. Groups did improve consistently from a touch over 3/4" at 100 to 1/2". Nothing overwhelming but better anyway. Enough that I left it on the rifle.

 

[skipglo]

Some tuners work, some don't. They certainly do not replace good handloads but can definitely be another Aid to improvement in accuracy. But without one and you are already shooting 1/4 moa...is it going to give an 1/8 th ? Not in my experience...could just be I'm not capable enough....blame it on my age!
Edit: Naaaah...I'll blame it on the wind!

 

[Mikecr]

1/4moa at what distance?
You could have ridiculous ES and shoot 1/4moa at 100yds, and crap at 500.
Then if you develop at 500yds, you could lose your 1/4moa 100.
This is common, and where a tuner can help.

Can a tuner bring 1/4moa to 1/8moa?
If anything can, a tuner can.

 

[HRM Johnny]

Tag

 

[skipglo]

1/4moa at what distance?
You could have ridiculous ES and shoot 1/4moa at 100yds, and crap at 500.
Then if you develop at 500yds, you could lose your 1/4moa 100.
This is common, and where a tuner can help.

Can a tuner bring 1/4moa to 1/8moa?
If anything can, a tuner can.

Noted!!

 

[1mechanic]

This is an interesting take on the tuner. It can help or it can hurt.

 

[1mechanic]

Ok stiff neck I have to ask did you get a viagra pill stuck in your throat?
Bad joke I know but I love one liners.

 

[Philward]

What effect does mounting the tuner on the barrel have? Mounting it at 0 still must change something, so once you've tuned a load with powder and seating depth, wouldn't mounting the tuner throw that off from the extra weight? How much do tuners move, 1/4" from 0-max adjustment?

 

[cajun]

IMO it's not a replacement for load development, its a supplement. Do a full load workup and then try and use the tuner to make the group even smaller. Worst case you end up with the tuner at Zero, where you started with load dev. The other benefit is for people who shoot matches, if the load falls out of tune and you have a little bit of time to test or sighters you may be able to quickly bring it back into tune with a bit of movement on the tuner.

Bingo. This is why a lot of bench rest guys would load at the shoot. Stay on top of conditions and keep the load in tune. The brake lets you make minor adjustments if needed. As mentioned Browning had the boss. Worked good to optimize factory ammo. A tuner is not a substitute for good load development it's a bonus.

 

[stiff neck]

What effect does mounting the tuner on the barrel have? Mounting it at 0 still must change something, so once you've tuned a load with powder and seating depth, wouldn't mounting the tuner throw that off from the extra weight? How much do tuners move, 1/4" from 0-max adjustment?

Frequently, simply mounting a tuner or brake or silencer on the end of your barrel improves groups. But, ideally, you should develop your load with the tuner already installed and set to 0, then see if the tuner can improve it.