Tubb Final Finish

[Mikecr]

Sure, lapping and polishing could be taken as differing levels of the same action.
I just think it's important to recognize that caution is in order as these actions are applied to your barrel.

A concern like this probably seems crazy from someone who firelaps bores..
But Tubb's FF does work. It does reduce copper fouling. And it doesn't destroy the desired surface finish within our barrels.
Sometimes it just comes down to discarding a barrel, or giving FF a try. That's what led me to it. When you get there, try it.

 

[sendero72]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I'll give the TFF a try. The fouling can't get any worse.

 

[Roughwater]

I haven't been able to go the $$$$ for a custom rifle so in the past I purchased the cheap end of the over-the-counter rifle spectrum.

My first rifle of late was a Remington 30-06, model 770 bolt with 22" barrel. Couldn't get it to shoot MOA even off a lead sled with hand made amo. So I tried Tubbs final finish. Used the whole kit. Rifle shoots as accurate as anything I have now (Sub MOA). Did the same with a Mossburg youth model 243 for my grandson with great results.

I have since been able to buy guns one step up from those but not custom. Am thinking of splitting a set of Tubbs final finish between my son's 270 Win, Model 700 Remington and a friends Ruger 270 Win. They both shoot decent around 1 MOA and don't believe they need the whole kit but think they could benifit from the final finish.

Terry

 

[Joe King]

Glad I read this thread. My daughter's 7mm-08 is a savage model 14, the barrel on that rifle looks like it was rifled with a jackhammer, maybe think sending a bullet over a 22" file. I think FF is in order here.

 

[lloydsmale]

in my opinion the reason you see more copper fouling after cleaning with jb is that your actually getting the barrel clean with it. copper fouling fills imperfections in your barrel. Its why some guns tend to shoot better after a dozen or so shots. Normal cleaing doesnt allways remove all the copper. After using jb your usually right down to the steel and imperfections again. I have never seen where a smoother barrel fouled more then a rough one.

 

[Mikecr]

You get more copper fouling if you use the wrong JB (Bore Bright).
And you get more copper(for the same reason) if you use Flitz.
The correct J-B (BORE CLEANING COMPOUND) doesn't 'hurt' a thing, or increase fouling.
Tubb's FF doesn't hurt a thing, or increase fouling.

Polished bores absolutely copper foul more.
The only recovery(possibly) from such an action, is re-lapping(back to custom bore finish).

And some guns won't shoot for a dozen or so shots because that's how long it takes to shoot out the oil they left in there, and re-establish dry fouling(with increased carbon by then).
Anyone can avoid this, I do, by cleaning to the metal every time, and dry prefouling, before putting the barrel back in the safe for ready use.
I can pull one out, shoot 100shts, and get no more than one blue-ish patch of copper from it.

I don't have to worry about carbon either, but I watch it. Carbon is the cancer that ultimately kills performance from our bores. Even if you shoot mild loads in a 30br, which could technically provide over 10,000 rounds of accurate barrel life, a fully formed carbon ring can take you out way earlier. Once established, you cannot remove it(cut out the cancer) without forever damaging the bore.

You can manage carbon build-up with rational/occasional use of J-B NON-EMBEDDING BORE CLEANING COMPOUND, and Tubb's TMS will still help with copper and dressing up of the lands(lapping them to your bullet shape).

 

[Wile E Coyote]

My .02 from my experience's with the product.

The first time I used a Tubb Final Finish kit was on a .308 Savage 99 aquired thru an estate sale. The rifle was a closet queen that probably hadn't seen the light of day much less a patch and oil in several decades. There was some rust in the bore and everywhere else for that matter. After a good cleaning, the gun would shoot a 2.5" group @100 off a sandbag with factory ammo. This was certainly good enough for my needs hunting whitetails in here in the east but I thought it could be better. Long story shortened, after using the full Tubb kit the gun groups the same ammo at just over 1" off a bag.

The second time I used the product was 2 years ago on a brand new Remington 700 in .223. The gun shot ok but nothing to brag about. What bothered me the most was the fact that it would copper foul immediately and of course lose accuracy. It had some other problems too but that's another conversation. Anyhow, I was about to have it rebarreled and wasn't worried about ruining the barrel when I used most of a .224 kit on the gun; the result was quite dramatic. Today that gun will shoot the cold bore shot slightly high (1/4 minute) everytime. Everything after that is a 1/2 minute or less out to 400 or so. The target in the thumbnail below is 6 rounds at 125 yards or so. The shot a 9 o'clock was deliberately held left because I couldn't see te other 4.

In the right situation, I'll use the product again. I won't use it on any of my aftermarket barrels yet. When one gets near the end of it's expected lifespan maybe I'll try it but that's going to be a while. And that once upon a time closet Queen is now my "go to" deer hunting rifle. At least when I'm hunting locally.

 

[Edd]

A few months ago, I sent an email to David Tubb asking about using their product in a brand new unfired barrel. The reply I received is below.

For your barrel you will want to use the TMS system. You will shoot 7 to 10 rounds of this through your barrel then clean good. As the Krieger 5r barrels are a high quality this should be enough to break in as well polish the barrel. If you have any further questions please let us know and we will be happy to help.

 

[Mikecr]

He's right, except for the 'polish' buzzword.
A borescope(and patches) show there is no polishing to it, but fire lapping.
It's important for shooters to recognize merchandising from material.

 

[Edd]

It wasn't clear to me if he meant to fire 7-10 rounds and clean once.

 

[Mikecr]

The instructions are here in the middle of the page; David Tubb
For new custom barrel break-in, clean every 10rnds.
For other, every 3rnds.
For throat maintenance, just fire TMS at the end of a range session & clean at the house.

I shoot only 10 coarse FF for break-in and 5 TMS every ~200rnds after.
I guess that's all I need.

 

[joe0121]

I use Wipe out. Course copper fouling isn't much of an issue for me as I have a custom after marker barrel. Cut rifled barrel and high quality button rifle barrel should require no fire lapping.

Fire lapping does however help out iffy factory barrels.

 

[lloydsmale]

Ive done it to 6 differnt guns. A couple had some pretty good improvement a couple gained may a 1/4 inch in group size and it did about nothing the the other two.