Tubb final finish bore lapping system

[WalksLikeADeer]

I have used Tubbs system and have restored old rifles back and even better than before. I will say I copper stripped first shot still didn't shoot and used Tubbs and shot an Inch. I have done this on 3 rifles now. I am not afraid to use this on a new rifle that wont shoot either with a factory barrel as custom barrels are made better. What do you have to loose?

Good to hear! I would be happy with an inch! I've killed deer the last several years knowing it was not shooting great but always inside 100 yards. I don't have the confidence in it to take a head shot like I use to. Thanks for your reply.

 

[J E Custom]

Has anyone tried this system on an old barrel? I have an 35 year old Winchester Model 70 Featherweight .243 that shoots 2"-2 1/2" 100 yd groups with both factory and handloads. It use to shoot 1 MOA but the last 3-4 years accuracy has degraded. I'm guessing it's had 1000-1500 rounds thru it. No hot loads. I've eliminated bedding and scope/mounts as the problem. A new barrel is most of the cost of a new gun. Thought I might try these as a last resort? Thank you in advance.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/605933/tubb-final-finish-bore-lapping-system

I have saved many old sporter rifles by simply doing a bright metal cleaning. (Cleaning until there is absolutely no copper or carbon fouling. if this doesn't work, then a shoot and clean brake in may be necessary (It probably was not broke in in the beginning and if not cleaned well copper fouling kept it from breaking in). this has worked many times even though the round count was several hundred shots.

I would use the final finish as a last resort if these procedures did not work. Keep in mind that some FACTORY BARRELS just wont shoot very well and a good cleaning is about all you can do for them. you will probably never get the 1 MOA accuracy back unless you re-barrel, but its worth a try.

Good luck

J E CUSTOM

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

I have saved many old sporter rifles by simply doing a bright metal cleaning. (Cleaning until there is absolutely no copper or carbon fouling. if this doesn't work, then a shoot and clean brake in may be necessary (It probably was not broke in in the beginning and if not cleaned well copper fouling kept it from breaking in). this has worked many times even though the round count was several hundred shots.

I would use the final finish as a last resort if these procedures did not work. Keep in mind that some FACTORY BARRELS just wont shoot very well and a good cleaning is about all you can do for them. you will probably never get the 1 MOA accuracy back unless you re-barrel, but its worth a try.

Good luck

J E CUSTOM

I will try the shoot and clean break in. I have done the bright metal cleaning several times to no avail. If I do rebarrel, I would probably go with a faster twist than the 1:10 factory barrel but stay with the lightweight sporter.. Do have a barrel make recommendation and know what a typical gunsmith would charge for the swap? I got a rough quote from a local gunsmith for around $600 but he didn't say which barrel he would use.Thank you for your reply.

 

[Susquatch]

I have checked the crown and can not see any noticeable flaws but it's possible there could be is some microscopic irregularities. I have increase the clearance between the free float barrel and stock and nothing is touching.

Yes, I feel I have nothing to lose and others seem to have had good results. I will report back if I try them. Thanks.

Please forgive me if I sound argumentative. I don't mean to. I just want to help you get back your old accuracy.

You say you checked the bedding. How did you do that?

Is this a wood stock? If so, does it have pillars?

The reason I ask is that wood can look like it has good bedding and can even test like it has good bedding. However, it can get punky or soft internally even while it looks and tests great. Properly installed Pillars solve both problems.

Again my apologies if I sound argumentative.

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

Please forgive me if I sound argumentative. I don't mean to. I just want to help you get back your old accuracy.

You say you checked the bedding. How did you do that?

Is this a wood stock? If so, does it have pillars?

The reason I ask is that wood can look like it has good bedding and can even test like it has good bedding. However, it can get punky or soft internally even while it looks and tests great. Properly installed Pillars solve both problems.

Again my apologies if I sound argumentative.

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

Please forgive me if I sound argumentative. I don't mean to. I just want to help you get back your old accuracy.

You say you checked the bedding. How did you do that?

Is this a wood stock? If so, does it have pillars?

The reason I ask is that wood can look like it has good bedding and can even test like it has good bedding. However, it can get punky or soft internally even while it looks and tests great. Properly installed Pillars solve both problems.

Again my apologies if I sound argumentative.

Not argumentative all all. I appreciate any help. The action was glass bedded years ago and shot 1 MOA without pillars. Just the last 3-4 years I have had bad groups and some erractic shots. The stock is wood and does not seem punky at all but I will look at it closer. I have tried torquing the action screws from 35-60 in/lbs with light tension on the middle screw, and it doesn't seem to make any difference in accuracy. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Orange Dust]

Try the tub bullets. She will smooth out the throat, doesn't cost much and if nothing else the gun will clean easier. It may really help. I've had great luck with it in factory barrels.

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

Try the tub bullets. She will smooth out the throat, doesn't cost much and if nothing else the gun will clean easier. It may really help. I've had great luck with it in factory barrels.

Good news! I just ordered them and will let you all know the results. I'll also take another look at the stock and bedding. Trying to get ahold of a bore scope also. Thanks for everyone's advice.

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

I've used Tubbs firelapping system on an older Ruger M77 30-06 that had a very rough bore it did indeed help that issue. The OP issue sounds more like a shot out barrel I really question whether it would help in that instance. I think I'd just rebarrel.

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

I've used Tubbs firelapping system on an older Ruger M77 30-06 that had a very rough bore it did indeed help that issue. The OP issue sounds more like a shot out barrel I really question whether it would help in that instance. I think I'd just rebarrel.

I'm glad it helped on your Ruger and I'm sure I am just putting off the inevitable. Option B will be a new barrel or a new rifle but this one has sentimental value Thanks.

 

[Susquatch]

Not argumentative all all. I appreciate any help. The action was glass bedded years ago and shot 1 MOA without pillars. Just the last 3-4 years I have had bad groups and some erractic shots. The stock is wood and does not seem punky at all but I will look at it closer. I have tried torquing the action screws from 35-60 in/lbs with light tension on the middle screw, and it doesn't seem to make any difference in accuracy. Thank you for the suggestion.

The Tubbs bullets won't hurt. But as described in the Tubbs instructions, just use the last two or three sets and not the course ones.

Given your description of the problem, I really think you should give that bedding a much closer look. Try testing it with a dial gauge. Since you didn't mention doing that, I assume you don't know how or don't have access to the equipment. Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

Remove the center screw completely. Then mount the dial gauge on the barrel with the indicator touching the bottom of the forend. Make sure the dial moves when you squeeze the barrel and forend together and when you pull them apart. Stand the rifle on its butt pointing straight up and hold it by the forend. Now tighten and loosen the front screw with the rear screw tight watching for dial gauge movement. Repeat the same process with the rear screw. Now leave both front and rear tight and install and then tighten and loosen the center screw watching the dial gauge. Any movement in the dial gauge more than a thou and a half during any of the three sequences indicates stress in the bedding.

I don't generally like YouTube videos, but this one shows the general method. I greatly favour standing the rifle on its butt, I don't use a barrel vice, and I have a barrel clamp for the indicator instead of a magnetic holder. I tried and failed at inserting a photo of my setup.



If you don't have a dial gauge, some people can see and/or feel the movement with a very light touch of your forefinger on the joint between the barrel and forend. I've also successfully used a long 6 inch X 1/4 inch strip of heavy paper cut from a file folder folded in half like a 3" long "V" with the fold inserted into the gap between the forend and barrel. The ends of the paper will magnify any movement in the gap.

I love wood, but it is very sensitive to bedding problems and usually benefits from properly installed pillars. Really gorgeous fancy wood is the worst of all because of how much it moves with temperature and humidity. I have an old rifle with a hand made presentation grade Claro walnut stock that was so bad that I eventually milled it out and epoxyed in a bedding block. It is still beautiful, but it doesn't move anymore....

 

[Susquatch]

I hope the attached photos of my setup for checking bedding show up......

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

The Tubbs bullets won't hurt. But as described in the Tubbs instructions, just use the last two or three sets and not the course ones.

Given your description of the problem, I really think you should give that bedding a much closer look. Try testing it with a dial gauge. Since you didn't mention doing that, I assume you don't know how or don't have access to the equipment. Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

Remove the center screw completely. Then mount the dial gauge on the barrel with the indicator touching the bottom of the forend. Make sure the dial moves when you squeeze the barrel and forend together and when you pull them apart. Stand the rifle on its butt pointing straight up and hold it by the forend. Now tighten and loosen the front screw with the rear screw tight watching for dial gauge movement. Repeat the same process with the rear screw. Now leave both front and rear tight and install and then tighten and loosen the center screw watching the dial gauge. Any movement in the dial gauge more than a thou and a half during any of the three sequences indicates stress in the bedding.

I don't generally like YouTube videos, but this one shows the general method. I greatly favour standing the rifle on its butt, I don't use a barrel vice, and I have a barrel clamp for the indicator instead of a magnetic holder. I tried and failed at inserting a photo of my setup.



If you don't have a dial gauge, some people can see and/or feel the movement with a very light touch of your forefinger on the joint between the barrel and forend. I've also successfully used a long 6 inch X 1/4 inch strip of heavy paper cut from a file folder folded in half like a 3" long "V" with the fold inserted into the gap between the forend and barrel. The ends of the paper will magnify any movement in the gap.

I love wood, but it is very sensitive to bedding problems and usually benefits from properly installed pillars. Really gorgeous fancy wood is the worst of all because of how much it moves with temperature and humidity. I have an old rifle with a hand made presentation grade Claro walnut stock that was so bad that I eventually milled it out and epoxyed in a bedding block. It is still beautiful, but it doesn't move anymore....

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

Very cool! I never thought of that. I do have a dial gauge and will give it a test when I get time. Thank you.