Trued/tuned Savage vs. Trued/tuned Rem 700

[Gregg C]

Since this thread got resurrected, I do have a question about recoil lugs. I had my rifle built with a Savage action, but had the gunsmith eliminate the barrel nut and shoulder the Lilja barrel. I told him I wanted a precision ground, .250 or thicker lug installed. Well, guess he forgot, cause it came home with the factory lug on it.. Question is, would it be worth the money, time and effort to have someone put the lug I wanted in it ? And is it really even doable, from a precision machining stand point? I can see that it might be a serious PITA , but then , I'm no machinist, either.

 

[FURMAN]

I would ask the gunsmith to redo it. If he will not I would look for other gunsmiths in the future. Is it worth it? I really do not know. I have shot many small groups with stock lugs. If I were spending money on a new barrel I would never reuse the factory lug.

 

[J E Custom]

J E Custom

A question. If you have a hunting rifle that shoots 1" groups at 200 yards right out of the box why would you mess around with truing anything on it?

Sorry I missed this reply .

With all of the builds I have done, I have never found a rifle/action that did not have some issues ! If you check any action/rifle and find the problems, even though they may shoot well, truing everything can only help. It has never hurt any rifles accuracy to go through it and get everything as near perfect as possible. I have worked on rifles that were 1/2 MOA rifles because they (The owner) wanted to see if anything could improve the accuracy and give them an edge with there competition. In most cases if the barrel was up to it they became 1/4 MOA or better rifles. Some have even dropped below 1/10th MOA when the shooter was up to it.

Possibly the smallest improvement I have seen was when a rifle consistently shot 5 shot groups @ 100 yards of .078 that after going through the entire system It went to shooting groups of .054. An improvement of "Only" .024 thousandths doesn't sound like much or even worth the effort, "BUT" the percentage of improvement is huge.

Note: Both groups were an average of 4 groups each (20 rounds per group).

So the answer to the question is to make it shoot better, and the logic is if it shoots that well, it is capable of better accuracy if any issues are fixed. (As long as the shooter is capable).

Small Improvements can become big improvements at longer ranges.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Trickymissfit]

have not kept up on what Savage is doing for the last couple years as I have little interest. Yet even less for anything with the name Remington stamped on it. My favorite hunting rifle is actually a junked M700 short action, that I rebuilt after thirty rounds down the tube. It's a rock solid .40" five shot rifle now. Good enough for what I want to do with it. BUT! It has a really tough bolt lift, and not exactly safe when letting the safety off. Always keep the latter in mind. I have a little Browning Lo-Wall that shoots sub 3/4" groups with just about anything (factory). I've also got an AR15 that shots low sixes right out of the box. Then there's the tale of the Remington 788's that all shot half inch groups right outta the box (talk about ugly)

Now I do own three Savage bolt guns. Two are the very old long actions and one is the newer short action. Two are single shot, and one was a magazine gun till I did some work on it. Two have the pinned rail on top, and the other is in limbo. Two have Rifle Basix triggers, while one has the factory varmint trigger. All are in the one pound range, and plenty good enough for anything I want. One rifle had so many rounds thru it that I lost the throat, and I simple did a barrel setback. Barrel finished out at 25.25" after I did some work on the muzzle. All three guns are pillar bedded, but with my pillars. Barrels are factory supplied (they all slugged very well), and I use the factory laminate varmint stocks (I like the shape of the front end), but have done some work on the palm swell on one. The shoulder length has been shortened to fit me, and give a better sight thru the scope. The worst of the three shoots .31" five shot groups, while the best is a very low .20" gun. All seem to like the exact same load by the way. I did make a hydralock arbor to face the nuts either in a lathe or grinder. Saw zero improvement. Barrel threads came very square from the factory, and were strait. I did lap the bolt seat on one with very little help (maybe a tad smoother). I have messed around with three or four recoil lugs and one that is very different. I now think that as long as the lug is parallel and in the .284" or thicker range your good to go. I make my recoil lugs out of ground 4150 steel plate.

I will (someday) rechamber one of the 112's into a some sort of a 6mm improved (forget Ackley). The Mod.12 sorta alternates between 22-250 and 6mm/250AI. I'll probably keep things that way. The third wants to be a 7.62x51 NM. The Remington will end up being a .222 Remington improved someday with a 1:10 twist barrel. Doesn't mean I dislike the Remington, but just not totally overjoyed with it.

My favorite Savages are 99's period! My favorite rifles are Hi-Walls period!
gary

 

[J E Custom]

Since this thread got resurrected, I do have a question about recoil lugs. I had my rifle built with a Savage action, but had the gunsmith eliminate the barrel nut and shoulder the Lilja barrel. I told him I wanted a precision ground, .250 or thicker lug installed. Well, guess he forgot, cause it came home with the factory lug on it.. Question is, would it be worth the money, time and effort to have someone put the lug I wanted in it ? And is it really even doable, from a precision machining stand point? I can see that it might be a serious PITA , but then , I'm no machinist, either.

He should have done what you ask, But if you talk to him he may have made a decision that would be best for you.

The savages have a thick recoil lug that Is very soft for punching it out
of a plate. it can be replace with a standard thickness recoil lug and actually gain strength.

The other possibility is that the thicker recoil lug would require some stock removal to except the lug and weaken the stock. Ether way He should have notified you about the change.

In many cases the standard .1875 or .200 lug is a better choice for many reasons, but you should give him the chance to explain why,
and as you said the possibility of him forgetting may be the reason.

In my opinion other than it was not what you wanted, it will work much better that the factory recoil lug you had (They have been know to bend because of their softness.

J E CUSTOM

 

[FURMAN]

He should have done what you ask, But if you talk to him he may have made a decision that would be best for you.

The savages have a thick recoil lug that Is very soft for punching it out
of a plate. it can be replace with a standard thickness recoil lug and actually gain strength.

The other possibility is that the thicker recoil lug would require some stock removal to except the lug and weaken the stock. Ether way He should have notified you about the change.

In many cases the standard .1875 or .200 lug is a better choice for many reasons, but you should give him the chance to explain why,
and as you said the possibility of him forgetting may be the reason.

In my opinion other than it was not what you wanted, it will work much better that the factory recoil lug you had (They have been know to bend because of their softness.

J E CUSTOM

This is all true but he says he left the factory lug in it. Maybe .250 wasn't the way to go but factory for sure wasn't.

 

[gohring3006]

As long as he didn't charge you for the lug/install, and it shoots like you expected I would leave it.
He owes you one.
I would keep that in mind when you need something...

 

[J E Custom]

This is all true but he says he left the factory lug in it. Maybe .250 wasn't the way to go but factory for sure wasn't.

I totally agree with you on that. I have never found a factory lug to be a uniform thickness. so not only did he not do what you wanted, he used a part that should never be used on a custom build. I cant/don't understand
the logic of that decision.

I would not use him again and find another Smith.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Gregg C]

I totally agree with you on that. I have never found a factory lug to be a uniform thickness. so not only did he not do what you wanted, he used a part that should never be used on a custom build. I cant/don't understand
the logic of that decision.

I would not use him again and find another Smith.

J E CUSTOM

That is really just the tip of the iceberg...he cut 3 inches off my barrel. Was supposed to finish at 34, per Lilja. It's 31. Looks like he started to polish it, then called and asked if I wanted it polished, no, thanks, oh ok. But you can see where he held something on the barrel, possibly a file, in the lathe. Under fluorescent lights, it looks like spiral fluting. He had to fit a Lapua bolt head(Savage), and it looks like hammered crap. Think it was done with a Dremel. And, like was mentioned , left the factory lug in it. On top of all that, he had to buy a reamer, and I think I paid for it but didn't receive it. . I told the guy I was un freaking happy, and he said he would make it right by my choice, which was to replace the barrel with another Lija like the one I ordered. This was all 5yrs ago. I finally gave up. So, no, he's NOT getting more chances to upset me. One thing I believe he did right, and that is the chamber. Its a 338-378Wby, and I have 16 cases with over 20 reloads. Admittedly , they are tired. But still...anyway- recoil lug ? Pifflings. But if it might shoot better, I'd pony up for one, if it was going to MAYBE make a big difference. For a MAYBE slight difference, I gotta chew on it some. Sorry about the rant, it kinda touched a nerve.

 

[scdogman]

So did you do the work yourself or pay a gunsmith? If accuracy is in the barrel why would I buy the more expensive action and then turn around a pay a smith.

I picked up a savage 110 for 250 with the accutrigger.

I could get a few dollars for the stock and barrel and have an action for around 190.

My 28 Nosler is shooting in the mid .3s.


Also. I'm not a PRS shooter, but if I was i probably won't have a savage or Remington action.

I have shot savages since the early 90's, ive had 2000$ custom savages, ive built them as well...

accuracy is in the barrel, not the action...

with the cost of savage actions, there is ZERO advantage to building a savage...
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/actions/savage/


known savage issues...
extractors blow, they drop brass back into the action
trigger issues

I've been shooting PRS type competitions for probably the last 12 to 15 years, and I can say almost without a doubt that there hasn't been a single competition I've been at that I haven't seen a malfunction caused by a Savage.

And all of them directly related to The Savage action and triggers.

The few times I've ever seen malfunctions in Remington's were usually magazine related issues not action related issues and the only trigger related issues I've ever seen were caused by people using Jewell Triggers which are notoriously unreliable in harsh conditions.


the 700 cost me 1100 to build

new action 370$
BHW rem-age Match barrel 325$
Magpul Chassis 280$