Trigger timing, training, practice

[WildRose]

Bump because it's a good thread.

 

[theflyonthewall]

That SCATT system makes me wonder if one could determine whether or not there was a sweet spot with regards to trigger pull weight. It seems obvious that the curve would be linear ---more weight equals more movement on target---but that my not be a "set in stone" type of thing. It would almost certainly be dependent on rifle weight as just one factor.

Inquiring minds....................

 

[Dr. Vette]

That SCATT system makes me wonder if one could determine whether or not there was a sweet spot with regards to trigger pull weight. It seems obvious that the curve would be linear ---more weight equals more movement on target---but that my not be a "set in stone" type of thing. It would almost certainly be dependent on rifle weight as just one factor.

Inquiring minds....................

I suspect it also depends on how much creep there is in the trigger.

I checked the trigger pull weight on two rifles I just took on a hunt as I wanted to see how close they were in pull weight. To me they felt different and I wanted to see if the heavier-feeling one could be adjusted. One is a tuned factory Remington trigger, the other a Timney on a Wby Vanguard. Both were found to be at 2 pounds average checking 5 pulls. You'd swear though when dry firing them yourself that the Remington is a pound lighter than the Timney - and the Timney is a far sight better than the stock trigger that came on that Vanguard. So, there are probably other trigger-related variables too.

 

[RDM416]

That SCATT system makes me wonder if one could determine whether or not there was a sweet spot with regards to trigger pull weight. It seems obvious that the curve would be linear ---more weight equals more movement on target---but that my not be a "set in stone" type of thing. It would almost certainly be dependent on rifle weight as just one factor.

Inquiring minds....................

I don't know what the answer would be on your trigger pull question. I rather suspect it would vary from one shooter to the next. What I do know is the SCATT system will "show" it. I have been working with my daughter doing standing .22. It is very telling and is great for testing how a change of grip, foot position, etc, etc.... affects your hold. As we start to use this thing I am very impressed at what can be learned from it. Even at the price it might still be a good deal for us LR guys just from the barrel life and ammo savings. For a serious smallbore and air rifle competitor it is a must, and has become a standard training tool for almost all top competitors. We just got it a few weeks ago and I have not hooked it up to one of my LR rigs yet. I am a little afraid of what I will see, so I may just wait until after hunting season. No need to give myself a "complex" just before a Kansas whitetail hunt!

 

[WildRose]

That SCATT system makes me wonder if one could determine whether or not there was a sweet spot with regards to trigger pull weight. It seems obvious that the curve would be linear ---more weight equals more movement on target---but that my not be a "set in stone" type of thing. It would almost certainly be dependent on rifle weight as just one factor.

Inquiring minds....................

To an extent you are right, but let me try to explain the real problem with heavy trigger pull.

The amount of force used to squeeze the trigger becomes a problem when you have the impact at the end of your over travel.

Normally most of us grip the rifle with our thumb, and then exert pressure essentially pulling to trigger towards the thumb with both the thumb and trigger finger.

When the trigger breaks and releases the firing pin you have a pent up force at least equal to the trigger pull that is suddenly released like a spring and when you hit the end of your over travel that impact can move the rifle.

Now a heavier rifle is going to move less, but even a light rifle will move very little if you have a light trigger pull because you have less force at impact at the end of your over travel.

Now most BR shooters I've known prefer maximum over travel so that the bullet can be out of the end of the barrel before you hit the end of your over travel.

Hopefully that makes at least some sense.

 

[theflyonthewall]

RDM.....Please let us know how things progress once you decide to try it on oneof your LR sticks.

Dr. Vette.....that's a very interesting comparison and result. I also own a Vanguard that I'll be slowly turning into an LR gun. And yeah, the factory trigger is laughable. It will be receiving a Timney ASAP.

WildRose.....I had never even considered all the variables that occur AFTER the trigger breaks......scratches chin....hmm.

So if I'm understanding correctly, one would actually WANT a lot of over-travel in the trigger in an effort to have the trigger break "in mid-stride" so to speak?

 

[theflyonthewall]

RDM.....Please let us know how things progress once you decide to try it on oneof your LR sticks.

Dr. Vette.....that's a very interesting comparison and result. I also own a Vanguard that I'll be slowly turning into an LR gun. And yeah, the factory trigger is laughable. It will be receiving a Timney ASAP.

WildRose.....I had never even considered all the variables that occur AFTER the trigger breaks......scratches chin....hmm.

So if I'm understanding correctly, one would actually WANT a lot of over-travel in the trigger in an effort to have the trigger break "in mid-stride" so to speak?

 

[WildRose]

RDM.....Please let us know how things progress once you decide to try it on oneof your LR sticks.

Dr. Vette.....that's a very interesting comparison and result. I also own a Vanguard that I'll be slowly turning into an LR gun. And yeah, the factory trigger is laughable. It will be receiving a Timney ASAP.

WildRose.....I had never even considered all the variables that occur AFTER the trigger breaks......scratches chin....hmm.

So if I'm understanding correctly, one would actually WANT a lot of over-travel in the trigger in an effort to have the trigger break "in mid-stride" so to speak?

That's how most of the BR guys like them.

If I have a trigger that breaks super clean I either want zero over travel or open it wide up.

If you have a super smooth, clean breaking, very light trigger, there's no acceleration to the point of impact so it's not a big deal.

 

[theflyonthewall]

Ahhhh I see. Thanks for all the explaining. Looks like my perfectionism has found a home here....lol. I guess ya have to have a little perfectionism in ya to shoot accurately at long ranges anyway. :~)

And now for something completely different:

Does anyone do any specific practicing drills?

There are drills used in just about every pursuit that requires accuracy. So in our shooting, it seems that drills that focus on specific aspects would be more beneficial that simply laying down and firing round after round.

Anyone do any specific drills?

 

[WildRose]

Ahhhh I see. Thanks for all the explaining. Looks like my perfectionism has found a home here....lol. I guess ya have to have a little perfectionism in ya to shoot accurately at long ranges anyway. :~)

And now for something completely different:

Does anyone do any specific practicing drills?

There are drills used in just about every pursuit that requires accuracy. So in our shooting, it seems that drills that focus on specific aspects would be more beneficial that simply laying down and firing round after round.

Anyone do any specific drills?

Like I suggested previously you can use a snap cap and a bore sight laser.

Put the laser on a target at say a hundred yards and squeeze. If it moves off of the bull'seye even slightly, you need work.

 

[theflyonthewall]

Where's the forum's "Thank You" button when you need it?....lol..............^

There's drill #1 that I'll be incorporating soon.

 

[Greyfox]

Ahhhh I see. Thanks for all the explaining. Looks like my perfectionism has found a home here....lol. I guess ya have to have a little perfectionism in ya to shoot accurately at long ranges anyway. :~)

And now for something completely different:

Does anyone do any specific practicing drills?

There are drills used in just about every pursuit that requires accuracy. So in our shooting, it seems that drills that focus on specific aspects would be more beneficial that simply laying down and firing round after round.

Anyone do any specific drills?

I have a year round drill that utilizes my 22LR, Savage TR that is weighted and set up very similar to my hunting rifles and shoot year round several times / week. I have a huge population of pests on my property, red squirrels, chipmunks, starlings, and woodchucks. My shooting area right out my door is a combination of rock walls, field, and wooded area that allows shots from 20 to 100 yards. My relative scope settings are set to simulate LR hunting conditions with my big game rigs. For example, at scope setting of 6x, shooting difficulty to hit a chipmunk in the vitals with an 8 MPH, 3o'clock wind at 70 yards is a relative approximation to a 900 yard shot on a deer sized animal. Ranging, elevation setting, wind dope, shooting skills, shooting rest, choice of load, and ballistics knowlege, are all critical factors. Every miss is analyzed. I have found this to be the best drill for me and it has really helped my big game hunting. I know it's not exactly the same but it's sure exercises the same skills to make a successful shot.

 

[theflyonthewall]

Awesome Greyfox!! I don't have the luxury of so many varmints here, but there are squirrels that I love to hunt and coyotes. So I'm already working on those, just not as much as I need to be.

But what you say makes all the sense in the world and I will be looking forward to chasing more small critters at extended ranges.

Thank you.

 

[WildRose]

I have a year round drill that utilizes my 22LR, Savage TR that is weighted and set up very similar to my hunting rifles and shoot year round several times / week. I have a huge population of pests on my property, red squirrels, chipmunks, starlings, and woodchucks. My shooting area right out my door is a combination of rock walls, field, and wooded area that allows shots from 20 to 100 yards. My relative scope settings are set to simulate LR hunting conditions with my big game rigs. For example, at scope setting of 6x, shooting difficulty to hit a chipmunk in the vitals with an 8 MPH, 3o'clock wind at 70 yards is a relative approximation to a 900 yard shot on a deer sized animal. Ranging, elevation setting, wind dope, shooting skills, shooting rest, choice of load, and ballistics knowlege, are all critical factors. Every miss is analyzed. I have found this to be the best drill for me and it has really helped my big game hunting. I know it's not exactly the same but it's sure exercises the same skills to make a successful shot.

Nothing beats live fire practice.

I spend the summers shooting the heads of of pond turtles in tanks where they are over populated. That can be a real challenge with open sights and targets that present 1/4"-1/2" opportunities.

I was thinking in terms though of "drills" for guys that don't get the same kind of opportunities for practice folks like you and I have.