Trigger issue

[curtiscd]

I just fixed this problem on 2 Rem 700's. One was a standard Timney and the other was an Elite. In both situations the top of the bolt release mechanism was contacting the bottom metal when torqued. I could actually replicate the situation by pulling the action out of the stock, placing the bottom metal on and running the action screws in by hand. I had to open the trigger guard from ~ .420" up to .510". On a McMillan Game Hunter I also had to relieve the stock area on the left side due to the same issue. There was relief already cut from the top down, but it wasn't far enough to accommodate the wider trigger assembly of the standard Timney.

 

[curtiscd]

Also, with the Calvin Elite on an HS Precision I had to place a washer under the rear torque screw because the trigger itself was contacting the trigger guard.

 

[yoteslayer]

AI know everyone here thinks I'm an idiot to file on the cocking peace to fix this issue so I contacted timney told them the problem and and ask if honing a little off the cocking peace would fix the problem this is there response

 

[shortgrass]

Sounds like to me that the trigger is releasing I think what's going on is when you torque the screws down it's bending the action a little and the cocking peace doesn't have enough clearance to slip past the sear so take a stone or file and take a little off the peace that protrudes out off the bottom of the shroud or bolt plug if you call it that so it has a little more clearance it should fix your problem you can take a pretty good amount off with out ruining it so just do a little and try it until it works let me know if this fixes it good luck

Ya' yoteslayer, you're "pretty much an idiot"! You state yourself that "when you torque the screws down it's bending the action". THERE is the problem, the action is not properly bedded. Fix the bedding! I have a formal gunsmithing education and now 25+ yrs at the bench. I have built well over 400 custom rifles in that time and I have NEVER had to remove material from the cocking piece to get a rifle to fire reliably! With proper bedding and clearances so the trigger is not touching the stock or bottom metal, I never will, neither will any other rifle builder. When you "bend the action", by torqueing the action down because of the lack of stress free bedding you are destroying any accuracy potential that might be there , otherwise. To recommend "hacking" on the cocking piece without concern for proper stock and bottom metal clearances and proper, stress free bedding is completely irresponsible and shows a lack of understanding of the principals involved.

 

[yoteslayer]

We don't know it's bending the action the action for sure because of tolerance in manufacturing this happens after installing 100s of triggers I have had this happen many times with out looking at the rifle there is no way of telling if it is bending also if the guy is ok with bending the action it will still fix the problem you also said don't go whittling on things that's what an idiot that has now idea how a trigger works would say I just sent timney response to show you that it's ok to take a little off the cocking piece but I can see you think you know everything and not willing to learn anything new also as you could see he said when he polled the trigger the firing pin didn't fall but when he wiggled the bolt it would so right there you can tell it's not the trigger binding it's something after the trigger releases so that's about the only thing it can be even in timneys trouble shooting it says if firing pin doesn't fall to take a little of the cocking piece so I guess if you want to argue with the manufacturer then I guess you know everything

 

[Alibiiv]

Hello all,
I am trying to do some investigating into what is happening with my trigger. I bought a Calvin Elite 2 Stage from another guy and at first glance it looks great. In fact, even when it is just on the barreled action it functions fantastic. BUT, when I put the barreled action in the stock and torque down my bottom metal the trigger begins to malfunction. When I pull it, it won't release the firing pin inside my bolt assembly until I move the bolt handle. Then, the firing pin will drop. I assume it gets bound up somewhere within the stock or with the bottom metal, but where would the pressure have to be on the trigger to cause this?
Thanks in advance for the input,
John

What make/model/caliber rifle are you working on?

 

[Alibiiv]

My experience with used triggers is that you don't buy used triggers "just" for this reason alone. I have had two bad experiences with Timney triggers on my Ruger 77 rifles. One experience was with an old stock "new" trigger where the box was open, got a good deal on it off of Gunbroker, well that was $75 worth of junk. Someone had managed to get inside of the trigger and screwed it all up. So that savings of the "old used stock" added an additional $75 to the cost of the new replacement trigger. Lesson learned, "Don't ever waste your money on used triggers!!" The second experience was with a Ruger Hawkeye in .358 Winchester, and that one was my fault. There's a section on the Hawkeye trigger that you are supposed to file material off to get the proper sear fit. I've been to armorer's school and an armorer for many years, so I should be able to do this job right? Well I took too much off, got a crisp let off on the trigger, but I don't trust it! When I try to release the firing pin by holding the trigger back and truning the bolt down by hand the firing pin will not drop unless I raise the bolt up once it is in the closed position, then the firing pin will drop. I called Timney to ask for a new part, they sent me a shipping label and told me to ship the rifle to them so they can fix it. And if you are having trouble with a trigger send it and your rifle back to the manufacturer and have them fix it!

 

[yoteslayer]

Timney has Excellent customer service by the way

 

[shortgrass]

It appears yoteslayer posed a very narrowly worded question to Timney with the hope of receiving the answer he wanted. That's called "having lack of back bone". I am very glad the OP didn't follow his advice, but followed the advice of others who recommended looking for inletting problems first, which was the problem. Anyone who doesn't understand that bending or stressing an action into the stock truly has no clue and lacks experience. Besides causing problems with triggers, action stress is probably the best destroyer of accuracy, right next to worn-out or just plain crappy barrels. Anyone who would advocate 'hacking' on metal before fully exploring the more common problems encountered when installing a new custom trigger, like insufficient inletting or the action being bent or put under stress by the guard screws when the action is torqued into the stock is just oblivious to what problems that can create. The "interdnet" trained can come up with some really unfounded conclusions of their own, with little basis in fact or cure for the problems that can and do occur in gunsmithing. Yes, Timney has very good customer service. I have used Timney triggers for years on just about every rifle they make triggers for (except the Jap). I have never had to alter a cocking piece to use one of their triggers, it has always been an inletting or bedding problem. And, I too, have installed and tuned literally hundreds of triggers manufactured by most all of the makers. It ain't rocket science, but it does require some common sense, which isn't so common anymore! I don't have to be 'right' about everything all the time. When I am wrong, I admit it. But it appears yoteslayer is unwilling to admit when he is wrong...…. Another "hack" is born!!

 

[yoteslayer]

Here's the thing you should check all the little things that can be wrong but if that doesn't fix it then you have to go to the Source of the problem what you are saying is like your driving your car and the front wheel is lose so you just slow to a slower speed cuz it seems to work better instead of fixing the problem same thing what your saying to do is adjust there action torque and maybe compromising the torque to fix something else seems like would be better to fix the source of the problem I guess we see things differently I'm also saying that just because you haven't had to do this this is a viable way to fix the problem when dealing with fire arms nothing is set in stone and buy the way I am wrong plenty sounds like you the one that can't admit your wrong and as soon as you think you know everything fire arms will hand your *** to you on a platter I don't care if I'm wrong or right just giving my experience maybe you haven't had this problem but it happens from time to time and the fix is acceptable way by the manufacturer of the trigger and all the comments are all things that could fix it I don't see where anyone is right or wrong do all these things and which ever one fixes it I guess is right but don't know how anyone can repair something over the internet these are merely suggestions but if you want to be right that badly then I guess that good with me but the guy might be shooting a gun with loose action screws that should be good for accuracy lol so I guess I will say I just agree to disagree or I gues I could say ya you know everything and your right to feed your ego

 

[yoteslayer]

Also does it make you feel better to call some one a hack you have know idea how many competitions my rifles have won I'm not quick to let everyone how Many competition guns I have built cuz I'm not here to impress anyone just my cus an it doesn't impress me if you build comp rifles guys that impress me are guys like speedy my mentor that builds 6 out of the top ten guns in a match

 

[shortgrass]

You really have no clue, do you.. I know where the 'ignore' feature is and you just made it! And, you need to work on your reading comprehension, too.. If you were really as experienced as you claim to be, you would understand what "stress free bedding" is.

 

[yoteslayer]

I do know what stress free bedding as I already stated that you should look at all the possibilities but I'm don't really understand your take on thing you fix enerthing with bedding and torque so let's brake this down yes bedding will fix a lot of things but your torque thing doesn't make sense I think everyone would agree that a trigger should function no mater what the action is torqued to but you use torque to hide the symptoms of a problem so I can see how you have never seen this problem cuz you always hide it by adjusting the torque instead of fixing the problem what happens if you have a rifle that likes 50 in pounds of torque for best accuracy but the trigger won't work over 30 in pounds never heard of anybody tuning a trigger with action torque so who would you rather have build you a gun a smith that figures out the problem and fixes it or one that covers up the problem by adjusting the torque on the action boy that would be a hard choice

 

[cahunter805]

I'd rather have a properly tuned walker trigger than a Timney in my rifle. I don't care for their design and fit.