Trigger control?

[Rich Coyle]

Recently while hunting I shot a deer. When the reticle was right it seemed like the trigger went of its own volition. For about forty years I have been using a twenty ounce trigger. Also I use brakes on everything.

 

[Bravo 4]

(Mike)"In mine, it's "follow through". I know I can't really see it through the scope but I try to see the bullet flying down range and impact the target."
That's what I do as well, I concentrate on actually seeing the trace/impact through the scope. Seen impact on the buck I shot last week with my .375 Snipetac @ 430 yards.

 

[djfriesen]

I appreciate this thread. As a new shooter, I am still developing enough familiarity with the process to try to be consistent. I currently shoot a 7mmRM with a radial brake. I try to influence the gun as little as possible, beyond a consistent pull to the shoulder (thumb aligned with my palm along the grip, three fingers aligned over the centreline of the grip). I find that the rifle jumps so much that I have no chance at seeing the impact. I plan to replace the radial with a sideport, to try to reduce this some, but I still plan to minimize and make as consistent as possible the input I have on the gun.

Sometimes it just seems that there are just as many "right ways" as there are shooters, and that I just need more time behind the rifle to find mine.

 

[Rich Coyle]

djfriesen,

A friend of mine bought a .338 RUM. It had a brake. He tried to shoot it the same way he shot his rifle without a brake. Regularly he was getting 1 1/2" at 100. I suggested he fire it like a BB gun. You know, with almost zero pressure at his shoulder. His groups went to 1/2".

 

[WildRose]

I appreciate this thread. As a new shooter, I am still developing enough familiarity with the process to try to be consistent. I currently shoot a 7mmRM with a radial brake. I try to influence the gun as little as possible, beyond a consistent pull to the shoulder (thumb aligned with my palm along the grip, three fingers aligned over the centreline of the grip). I find that the rifle jumps so much that I have no chance at seeing the impact. I plan to replace the radial with a sideport, to try to reduce this some, but I still plan to minimize and make as consistent as possible the input I have on the gun.

Sometimes it just seems that there are just as many "right ways" as there are shooters, and that I just need more time behind the rifle to find mine.

I would ditch the radial brake for starters.

The side discharge brakes with holes on top will tend to give you considerably better muzzle flip control and won't end up blinding you in dust and snow when shooting from the prone which can cause lots of negative issues.

There are lots of good side/top discharge brakes on the market and I have settled on the NWP muzzle brake made by Mac's Gunworks in Wyoming. I have them on a dozen rifles now in everything from .260 Rem to .375 Ruger and couldn't be more pleased.

https://www.macsgunworks.com/muzzle-brakes

Lots of dry firing practice will really help you see just how much of your problem has to do with the trigger.

You should also have your trigger pull tested and have an experienced gunsmith and or shooter give it a good try and tell you if you need a "trigger job", "trigger adjustment", or maybe if an aftermarket trigger replacement would be best.

 

[tbrice23]

I tend to think different on this matter than most, I don't want a gun to "surprise" me. I want to know exactly when that dude is gonna go off.

Exactly. I want to be conscious of the sear break, primer ignition, and inertia of the bullet moving and initiates recoil.

All this so that I can be conscious of exactly where the crosshairs are when the second half of recoil ( muzzle blast/gas push) happens. Just in case I loose sight picture in the heavy recoil impulse.
This is what I believe gives us the ability to "call the shot".

 

[tbrice23]

I also shoot a 17lb 6mmBR in 600 yard Benchrest comp.
My trigger is about 2 oz!
I completely free recoil. Only the tip of my trigger finger touches the rifle. It took me years to convince myself that it was ok to do this. I thought of it as cheating for some reason. My scores showed massive improvement shooting this way.
But I believe this technique WILL teach some people bad habbits.

 

[Greyfox]

While I am heavily involved in a variety of shooting sports(benchrest, PRS,tactical,etc), my primary focus has been LR hunting. The competitive sports are looked upon as practice for hunting in the off season. For this reason I have always used a "hard hold" method of shooting style because a free recoil style is generally not practical in hunting situations. My much preferred trigger for competition has been the Jewel, adjusted to 1.5-1.75#. After a lot of dry fire practice, I have been able to keep sub .2MOA with this weight and a hard hold. Unfortunately, the rather delicate design of the Jewel at this weight, IMO, is not amenable to harsh hunting conditions. My hunting triggers have generally been Timney and OEM triggers that are set about a pound heavier due to the freezing temperatures which can effect trigger control. Recently, I have been working with the Timney and Huber Concepts, 2 stage trigger models set at 1.5-1.75#. The two stage design seems to provide better control for me over the single stage in harsh hunting conditions, providing the best of both worlds. While costly, I will say that the Huber Concepts trigger is is quite impressive in both function, feel, and rugged design.

http://huberconcepts.com/product/2-stage-rem-700-trigger/

 

[Bravo 4]

tbrice23,
I agree that some shooting styles (competition) will instill what I would consider "bad habits". After shooting EIC I realized this, the Army is BIG on their shooting teams and matches. So much so that it takes priority over Snipers and Infantry Soldiers. So we would shoot in these matches for practice, but go to one and watch. That's NOT how you train Soldiers to shoot! Might as well have the 4H out there training them.
I also agree in calling the shot, for multiple reasons. I don't think most folks are taught and practice that.

 

[Bravo 4]

Greyfox,
I like to "drive" my rifles using a hard hold. I have noticed however that some rifles just don't like it. I'll fight and fight with them but it reminds me of my wife...sometimes I just waist time and money, just to lose in the end. But the difference is, I don't play with those rifles much.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Bravo...being able to call the shot and see impact is want i want to be able to do and learn. In my current shooting there is still too much disruption from recoil for me to do it.

So how do you train to be able to call the shot? Could you explain more about driving the rifle and using a hard hold?

 

[Greyfox]

Bravo4,tbrice23...

I agree that different rifles require different holds. The older I get, the more particular I am about stock design. I also think that the benches used at most shooting ranges for general use and bench-rest competition, may do more harm them good when it comes to achieving precision, particularly with newer shooters. Most bench designs make it difficult for the shoulders to position at 90 degrees(perpendicular) to the barrel line effecting alignment. To achieve precision, the shooter has to revert to either "free recoil"(with a hair trigger as to not move the rifle) as most benchrest competitors practice, or, when using a hard hold, struggle to find the just the right hold/body position in order to get accuracy....then, duplicate it exactly. I find that my rifles are much more forgiving to hold pressure and "trigger control/pull weight" when behind the rifle with shoulders square; with prone producing the most precise results. All my serious load development is done from a prone position. For hunting/competitive shooting in non-prone positions I work hard to always keep my shoulders square. IMO, I think the trigger often takes the blame when there might be other factors at work.

 

[tbrice23]

Bravo...being able to call the shot and see impact is want i want to be able to do and learn. In my current shooting there is still too much disruption from recoil for me to do it.

So how do you train to be able to call the shot?

Be conscious of exactly where the crosshairs are at during the entire firing process, noticing exactly what movements are occurring and correct your body position to insure that the first half of recoil impulse keeps the rifle movement as straight in line as possible so that the crosshairs stay on target.
This takes concentration and attention, be sure that your trigger finger moves straight in line with the rifle when the trigger sear breaks.
My heavy recoil rifles sometimes do not allow me to keep sight picture during the second recoil impulse no matter how hard they are held.
But the very last image my eye captures in the very last nanosecond of the shot before my teeth get rattled by recoil will enable me call the shot.

 

[tbrice23]

As mentioned earlier, video yourself shooting and play back on slow mo. You'll be amazed