Traditional mushroom or shedding petals

[QuietTexan]

I use both. Fracturing at high velocity and mushrooming (kinda sorta, the Makers style that really petals open) at low velocity. Both work well in their inteded uses.

There was a very in-depth discussion recently on if a flat shank tip does more damage than a mushroom, and my take away from it was that flat surfaces tear more tissue, whereas a mushroom pops a smaller hole. Total surface area of the permanent wound channel can be larger from a blunt object than a mushroom. Matches my personal experience at least - in monos, and maybe slightly explosive Hornady SSTs always killed better for me than Core-Lokts with the perfect mushroom shape.

I have had the zero-blood thing happen shooting Hammers, but the track was easy because the deer hadn't moved a single foot. Could have died of fright for the complete lack of visible evidence it had been shot. Insides were an absolute wreck of blood in the chest cavity when I cleaned it, but it just all stayed inside.

 

[fordy]

Gday.7mm


so much has been learned on what actually is occurring not what is being assumed & brands are evolving the more that is found out ( some brands )

I'm lucky to share ideas with a group of like minded individuals & still learning & tweaking pills along the way so in no way is this final of the only way forward as I still believe companies can improve & are

So far what's been observed ( not just killed ) over critter numbers of mine that are well into the 5 figures mark on the shedding petal varieties ( I think 25 years I've worked on with these shedding pill varieties like gpa, Travis , raptor, laser , apex ,hammer etc ) & are the better killers
As long as they stick to the part that has been bought up & that's a flat meplat not a rounded then once you break those down you can segregate them again into a couple of other categories & the best comparison is the raptor & laser same company but as the shed petals are different the way they act in the critter & simplified one cuts the other crushes & the cutting is not often seen in projectiles & the alloy has a play in this but not just that alloy well balanced & pop is other parts that come in plus a bit more
Now a mushroom mono can still get that flat meplat & when it does watch the killing improve on the mushroom killing ability & it shows up in sweet spots on killing ability & the best without a doubt is our Aussie company OEP & if you could stick to the 2500 impact it's got no peers in the mushroom world ( well not that I've found yet & I've tested a lot of mushroom monos )

Next part is the ones to steer clear of or if you do use is the ones you hear that shed petals once a certain velocity is reached
So by all means one can use them ( good if you stay below that velocity impacts where all petals remain intact )!just be aware that once shedding starts @ that velocity you get usually 1 or 2 to break off first & others retained which does in some cases act like a round nose solid or angled meplat & turns /tumbles happen which when this does performance drops off
If the lot of the petals break off the meplat is fairly round to way rounded & once again the performance varies & the petals usually don't track with the shank as that's another part of a shedding that's important to watch

I've got a few pictures but don't know what to post & im limited to ten pictures anyway so really a waste of time imo & until you start breaking those down & putting in to velocity brackets then add the resistance difference these were impacted @ you are only going to get a snippet of what will give you the most consistent pill for hunting scenarios that play out in the field & that takes numbers to compile that data so

If you are happy to just kill so many good brands do that but only a couple kill extremely well & cover a lot of bases
& the later is what I concentrate on & then your entering into different alloys , different tip systems /behaviour etc
& a way deeper discussion is needed

For now

Look @ good working velocity windows & the bases that pill can cover ( triangle )
Stick within those parameters & your on your way to having a good mono load

Cheers

 

[memtb]

Wanna hear from the mono crowd. Not trying to start a war between lead core/bonded/mono

I like to develop atleast one mono load for my hunting rifles. But I go back and forth between the traditional barnes lrx style mushrooming bullet and wanting to try something new like the Apex Afterburner. I have already shot hammers and they did all right. But after one negative experience I went back to barnes.

I'd like to see some wound channels and maybe some terminal ballistic reports from petal shedding bullets other than hammers like the CE and Apex. Also comparisons to the lrx.

Post pics if you got them and terminal reports.

On smaller game I can see the benefits of shedding petals! On large big game, especially on an end to end shot. I want just a mushroom, maximum weight retention…..for maximum penetration!

Obviously, it would be impractical or virtually impossible, to have two types of bullets on the same hunt……expecting to have opportunity to switch bullet types and expect the same zero/tractories!

Summary: I'll take the mushrooming bullet! I've used this philosophy since the early '90's and haven't been disappointed yet! Neither do I use one on the minimal calibers…..I lean toward a larger caliber cartridge.

As a qualifier, I haven't killed as much game as many folks here…..so a failure may be eminent, just hasn't happened yet! memtb

 

[Marksman LLC]

On smaller game I can see the benefits of shedding petals! On large big game, especially on an end to end shot. I want just a mushroom, maximum weight retention…..for maximum penetration!

Obviously, it would be impractical or virtually impossible, to have two types of bullets on the same hunt……expecting to have opportunity to switch bullet types and expect the same zero/tractories!

Summary: I'll take the mushrooming bullet! I've used this philosophy since the early '90's and haven't been disappointed yet! Neither do I use one on the minimal calibers…..I lean toward a larger caliber cartridge.

As a qualifier, I haven't killed as much game as many folks here…..so a failure may be eminent, just hasn't happened yet! memtb

See, I disagree on the maximum penetration part. Thats not the most important part to me unless I was hunting dangerous game.

I want adequate penetration and large wound channels that guarantee mortality.

It would be nice to have it all, which I think with the constant improvements in mono projectiles, is what I am looking for.

I have talked to Mark with Apex and I think those afterburners will be my next foray into a mono load. His words were that customers reported the Afterburner to be like " a berger that penetrates" that right there would be what I want out of a mono bullet. Large permanent wound channel with deep penetration.

 

[bigngreen]

I'll never go back to mushrooming monos vs shedding. The lethality isn't comparable especially on game like elk, they track straighter also.

 

[fordy]

Gday .7mm
The afterburner will do well for you im sure

Broadly speaking here :
a little fine tunning on what his customers have relayed to mark in relation to the Berger & watch this little detail once you shoot them in critters that gives you a indication of why they are more like a eld than a Berger ( transition zone )

On penertration overall length the well balanced shedding monos will out penertrate a mushroom mono everyday & yet even in the same companies you will get unbalanced pills that show either erratic results or mediocre preformance

It's really no difference with mushroom monos or even c&c

But it's not only length of penertration as you need to break that down into stages or preformance zones to get a better understanding of a pill's potential killing consistency but that's potentially for another day

The more important part is one I if you don't mind as I believe you've made your mind up on your brand of pill that your using is delving a little deeper but only if you don't mind a derail or if you would rather I step aside & leave for another thread I will oblige & leave this thread

So Potentially on yours & memtb ok I'll get into the following

I will take up @memtb part of the equation/position of how & why the balanced shedding are better penertators to mushroom & also if memtb would like to discuss as he is one of the guys who is able to process things in a far more easy go attitude & not close a mind off like some of the white noise brigade
& what we need to understand with him his application of what pill he chooses & why his results are what they are , he covers a lot of bases & im not going to sway him as why when he is in a good sweet spot already & his critters the gains are smaller than what others do /use

Either way I wish you the best
Cheers

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have my own opinion on what a bullet SHOULD DO, regardless of construction.
l like bullets to expand and keep the expanded section close to the shank, which stops the parachute effect of a large expanded frontal section. I have done enough DG hunting to realise that a large frontal area slows penetration and causes this 'parachute' effect, Woodleigh addressed this when developing the Protected Point bullet, it stopped this effect immediately. My 505 Gibbs using the 600g PP out penetrated my 600 OKH by double because only the Soft Point is available in 600 calibre. The frontal size of the 600 is nearly double when expanded, the 505 was not even half again bigger, the 410g .416" bullet, a soft point, expand about 3/4 of a calibre.
I like how the 4 petals on the TTSX work staying reasonably close to the shank, did not get this with TSX in smaller cals, so not sure what 338's and bigger do.

Cheers.

 

[Elkeater]

I'm a user of primarily hammers. I use the hammer hunters and absolute hammers. I'd like to try the HHTS but since I have a fair number of Hammers already sitting on the shelf and loads already developed I don't feel like using up primers and powder developing more loads.

So to the OPs original question I prefer the way the hammers fragment. I've shot or seen shot probably 40+ animals with hammers at ranges from 20-400 yards amd been happy with the performance. The little 63gr absolute hammer out of my 16" AR in 5.56mm is particularly useful on deer sized critters on down.

 

[Marksman LLC]

I'm a user of primarily hammers. I use the hammer hunters and absolute hammers. I'd like to try the HHTS but since I have a fair number of Hammers already sitting on the shelf and loads already developed I don't feel like using up primers and powder developing more loads.

So to the OPs original question I prefer the way the hammers fragment. I've shot or seen shot probably 40+ animals with hammers at ranges from 20-400 yards amd been happy with the performance. The little 63gr absolute hammer out of my 16" AR in 5.56mm is particularly useful on deer sized critters on down.

I have had a negative experience with hammers on game and also the advertised estimated bc's were not accurate. Thats just my personal experience though. And the reason why I stated I wanted to try something different.

Most bullets work well inside 400 yards. Its beyond 400 where bullet construction and terminal capabilities really starts to matter.

 

[Elkeater]

I have had a negative experience with hammers on game and also the advertised estimated bc's were not accurate. Thats just my personal experience though. And the reason why I stated I wanted to try something different.

Most bullets work well inside 400 yards. Its beyond 400 where bullet construction and terminal capabilities really starts to matter.

I guess I just gave you my experience. And my preference regardless of brand of bullet is still something that loses it petals. Just seems like better terminal ballistics to me. Haven't killed anything with the hammers beyond 400 yards yet just because a.) I haven't been hunting as much as I used to and b.) I seem to keep getting closer opportunities. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try a long shot over 600 yards next week on a hog though. For me the BCs have been spot on but I also twist them fast so maybe that's what does it

 

[Marksman LLC]

I guess I just gave you my experience. And my preference regardless of brand of bullet is still something that loses it petals. Just seems like better terminal ballistics to me. Haven't killed anything with the hammers beyond 400 yards yet just because a.) I haven't been hunting as much as I used to and b.) I seem to keep getting closer opportunities. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try a long shot over 600 yards next week on a hog though. For me the BCs have been spot on but I also twist them fast so maybe that's what does it

For sure man, im not knocking what works for you...I'm just looking elsewhere at the moment.

 

[FEENIX]

I have talked to Mark with Apex and I think those afterburners will be my next foray into a mono load. His words were that customers reported the Afterburner to be like " a berger that penetrates" that right there would be what I want out of a mono bullet. Large permanent wound channel with deep penetration.

Congrats on your choice. Mark is a good guy. Looking forward for field report and successful harvests.