To neck turn, to ream or not to ream?

[Orange Dust]

No argument is intended, But fact is, neck turning is, or is isn't a requirement, determined by the dimensions of a custom chamber, and "not" based on the desire to do it or not do it by an individual.
Some shooters "prefer"to just true up the necks by taking just a very small amount off the high spots. Especially if the neck size has been reduced by any appreciable amount.
It may or may not have an affect on accuracy, but it will have none on the velocity of the cartridge unless the neck is tight, and is causing high pressure.
Fact is it would be easy to ruin brass as a result of neck turning for a chamber not requiring it.
I would suggest taking a fired case from the gun in question, and "without" resizing it, try to put a bullet tip first into the case.
Even a loaded bullet would work for that.
If it goes in without resistance, for sure no neck turning is needed, and would be typical of factory chambers. If it goes in with a very slight amount of resistance, that would be typical of a custom no turn chamber. Of coarse if it wont go in at all, or without a fair amount of force, then turning would be advisable in order to keep chamber pressure under control. Many "good" gunsmiths, will indicate the neck dimensions on the barrel after they chamber it.

100% True. When not needed for clearance, it is in the same category as, uniforming primer pockets, flash holes, weighing cases, and sorting and coating bullets. Completely unnecessary, but very useful in building consistently performing ammo for long range. Like I said before, helps with runout, and gives a more consistent bullet pull. Both very good things. Like you stated, it is also very easy to over do and ruin a case, just like some other case preps. Also, like I stated earlier, for shooting game 400yds or less, none of this matters and is not worth the trouble. I might even go you 500.

 

[Orange Dust]

I'm not arguing and don't want this to turn into that. Opinions are like elbows,everyone has a couple.

What are you seeing in gains at your distances of 300-1000+. I may revisit my neck turning on a couple of rigs.

The gain is in the vertical part of the group. I can't tell you the gain from just turning the necks because I fully prep my brass, and it is just one step. I would say the gain is a lot over just load and shoot at long range for most brands of brass. Also, brass prep is just part of the story. I won't even bother trying to work up a load anymore without starting with fully prepped brass. Found out years ago I could half my groups by going to all this trouble. Might be interesting now to go the other way and load some random new cases and bullets with my current load. Guessing groups would double.

 

[yobuck]

The gain is in the vertical part of the group. I can't tell you the gain from just turning the necks because I fully prep my brass, and it is just one step. I would say the gain is a lot over just load and shoot at long range for most brands of brass. Also, brass prep is just part of the story. I won't even bother trying to work up a load anymore without starting with fully prepped brass. Found out years ago I could half my groups by going to all this trouble. Might be interesting now to go the other way and load some random new cases and bullets with my current load. Guessing groups would double.

But again your talking about groups. When talking about shooting as in target shooting, certainly that is the main consideration, and what ever it takes to accomplish that is worth doing. The whole thing revolves around accuracy of the equipment and the shooters ability to deliver.
But does luck play any roll at all, especially when discussing long range target shooting?
And if we think not, then why has no long range 1000 yd record holder ever duplicated his performance?
I mean very good bowlers have often bowled 300 games haven't they? Some target shooters can be counted on to shoot perfect prone scores 100% of the time in certain types of shooting. Just the X count might vary some.
As for long range hunting, and whats required in order to be successfull at that, id advise discussing that with those who are, and get their take on it.
And not just in one part of the country, because it can vary depending upon where you might be.
But I can tell you one thing for sure, the best long range target shooters as a rule don't finish at the head of that group. As difficult as that may be to understand and agree with, has no bearing whatsoever with actuall reality.

 

[Orange Dust]

But again your talking about groups. When talking about shooting as in target shooting, certainly that is the main consideration, and what ever it takes to accomplish that is worth doing. The whole thing revolves around accuracy of the equipment and the shooters ability to deliver.
But does luck play any roll at all, especially when discussing long range target shooting?
And if we think not, then why has no long range 1000 yd record holder ever duplicated his performance?
I mean very good bowlers have often bowled 300 games haven't they? Some target shooters can be counted on to shoot perfect prone scores 100% of the time in certain types of shooting. Just the X count might vary some.
As for long range hunting, and whats required in order to be successfull at that, id advise discussing that with those who are, and get their take on it.
And not just in one part of the country, because it can vary depending upon where you might be.
But I can tell you one thing for sure, the best long range target shooters as a rule don't finish at the head of that group. As difficult as that may be to understand and agree with, has no bearing whatsoever with actuall reality.

We will just disagree and drop it. What you are doing works for you and what I am doing works for me, and works too well for me to change.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

i dont think comparing it with bowling is a close comparison
20 yard vs 1000 . with much different variables
in golf , they don't keep sinking hole in ones , if they do it once

when i get any time, i will finish this spread sheet im working on.. Im using all published data sources known mid weight loads with bullets matching bcs and drops ,plan to have the spreadsheet show vertical difference and likely hit patterns at 300 500 800 1000 1200 1500 1760 , starting with a 1moa accuracy cone pattern + only 2 to 4 tenths of an inch at 300 but , depending on caliber bullet weight and bc could be as high as 20-30" over your 10" moa @ 1000 .. which would leave you a probable hit patter of 25ish inch high by 10" wide (like a gravity only world chart)

if i can keep that to 10 wide x 12 high by keeping my es/sd lower , by only adding turning to my case prep .. that is more accurate for me

 

[Orange Dust]

i dont think comparing it with bowling is a close comparison
20 yard vs 1000 . with much different variables
in golf , they don't keep sinking hole in ones , if they do it once

when i get any time, i will finish this spread sheet im working on.. Im using all published data sources known mid weight loads with bullets matching bcs and drops ,plan to have the spreadsheet show vertical difference and likely hit patterns at 300 500 800 1000 1200 1500 1760 , starting with a 1moa accuracy cone pattern + only 2 to 4 tenths of an inch at 300 but , depending on caliber bullet weight and bc could be as high as 20-30" over your 10" moa @ 1000 .. which would leave you a probable hit patter of 25ish inch high by 10" wide (like a gravity only world chart)

if i can keep that to 10 wide x 12 high by keeping my es/sd lower , by only adding turning to my case prep .. that is more accurate for me

Thank you.

 

[yobuck]

Well I wasent actually comparing bowling, but whoever brought up the one hole golf shot, thank you, as both require a large element of luck.
For average Joe L/R hunter, just sorting brass by keeping the high shot brass separate from the ones that go in the same place will work well enough for most of us. Especially since about 90% or more is under 1000.

 

[Orange Dust]

Ethical long range hunting should never be dependent on luck. I go to great pains to be able to put a bullet right where I want it to go. Sometimes that even isn't exactly right, because the animal isn't standing exactly as it appears. Can happen easily when its legs are covered by grass or other cover. For me, the limiting factor is wind. I know I am no where near "Sniper Grade" at reading wind away from me, especially when there is no reference... Bent grass etc. Knowing this limitation is key when deciding to shoot or let him walk. I shoot the most accurate ammo I can build, and tune it to the rifle as well as I am capable. I have killed a lot of stuff. Some of it pretty far, and have been doing it a long time. I too have seen target shooters that were not good hunters. I have never seen a good hunter that could not make the shot at a range. Just saying...

 

[J E Custom]

All of the reasons to turn the necks or not to have been discussed and there will always be different opinions on it. So Whether you do or don't turn the necks boils down to what is the most consistent.

Accuracy, Is consistency, No mater what the procedure or shooter skills. If the rifle is precision, the ammo also needs to be precision. Shooter skills have to be worked on to get more consistent just like everything else to be accurate/consistent.

Accuracy test/Grouping will only tell you what the rifle and load combo is capable of. the shooter is the other part of the equation and shooting in the field is totally different than shooting at the range where things are at there best.

A well built and loaded rifle will normally out shoot the owner (Which is the desired accuracy for the field) placing all the pressure on the shooters skills. Whether you turn to a dimension, turn just to clean the neck up or do nothing as long as you are consistent you can get the desired accuracy you want . But if you take the time and do everything the same, you can improve you rifles accuracy. (Not your shooter skills).

I test all of my rifles on the bench under ideal conditions to find the rifles accuracy and have found that some procedures may only subtract .020 from the best group, but in my opinion every improvement is worth the effort and it removes any excuses that I can come up with if I make a less than perfect hit.

I turn my necks to make them consistently the same when I load them, it also helps the bullet tension consistency improving the accuracy and SDs. It may not make that much difference, and I may not be able to see any difference in the field due to shooter skill and conditions but as I said, Any improvement is worth the effort especially if it gives me more confidence and in some cases the comfort to take a longer shot that would not be considered if the rifle and ammo was not up the the task.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[Alibiiv]

Read 'Handloading for Competition'.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/096269259X/?tag=lrhmag19-20

Just want to thank you for the info on the book. I finally got the book in from Amazon and still doing a lot of reading with it. Thank you again.