Time to move out to 200 yards?

[the hunter]

100 yards is great for measuring a rifles capabilities. 200 yards won't show anything that 100 won't. With that said, you can shoot as far or as close ss you want. If a rifle is 1 to 1/2 Moa out to 1000 yards, then it becomes a measurement of shooter ability. If we want to really get technical, why not 500 yard groups? It's because wind and parallax becomes a influence and you can't determine a rifles ability with doubt introduced into the equation.

Carlos Hathcock zeroed at 550m.

 

[memtb]

Carlos Hathcock zeroed at 550m.

I've heard that he was pretty good with a rifle! memtb

 

[Axl]

I think that I "may" be experiencing a similar situation ("go to sleep") with my rifle. When I was developing the load, I wanted to use a specific bullet. I was very pleased with the velocities....but not so much with the groups. But, as this was a "hunting rifle", and "not" a dedicated long range rifle....I decided that I could live with it.
My 100 yard, 3 - shot groups averaged around .75 to 1.25"... acceptable, but barely! As we typically hunt where longer shots are the norm, we zero at 300 yards. A few days ago, when doing a zero check for the upcoming season....my 300 yard shots where almost identical to my 100 yard shots. Granted...my shots at 300 were only 2 - shots adjust the scope and shoot again. I got a group (2 shots) 7/8" ccenter to Center, adjusted the scope and shot another 2, going 1.25" center to center. With my limited knowledge, my logic suggests that the groups should triple (3x) size at 3 times the distance....especially when only using a 10x scope. Perhaps, I'm seeing some of this phenomenon!
I saw this happen many years ago, with a friend. His preferred bullet shot terribly at 100 yards, only grouping around 2". But, when stretched out to 300 yards... his groups went to 1.0 to 1.5"! The bullets " going to sleep"....we're our only explanation! memtb

comparing a 3 shot group at 100 to a 2 shot at 300 on different days isnt really a fair comparison.
Set up a target at 100 and one behind it at 300 then shoot through the first into the second and you will be able to compare 100/300 yard groups

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I don't shoot much at 100y. Only when the 200y range is not available. I do not put as much value in the target but the vel data is the same.

I have experienced a load that shot less than expected at 100y. It was my 1st custom rifle and I remember being quite disappointed. I still had some loaded and just wanted to shoot my new rifle so I took it to the 200y butt and shot the same size group as it did at 100y. This phenomena has been debated heavily in the past. I have experienced loads that have moa size improvement at longer range vs 100y. In my opinion it is not possible for a load to shoot smaller groups at longer range than short range, actual physical size. When this happened to me I wondered how many good loads I had discarded because I did not take them farther than 100y.

I will add to this that I personally shoot better at long range. The farther the range the more I am able to relax on my aiming. At short range I find myself trying to force the rifle to aim smaller.

Steve

 

[memtb]

comparing a 3 shot group at 100 to a 2 shot at 300 on different days isnt really a fair comparison.
Set up a target at 100 and one behind it at 300 then shoot through the first into the second and you will be able to compare 100/300 yard groups

This would require a bit of a redesign of my range, as the target frames are offset. Plus....I have a fairly solid backing board on the target frames, which would upset the bullet flight.

It seems that if the groups at 100 are fairly consistent, and those at 300 are also fairly consistent (except on those days when I shouldn't be shooting)....it indicates a pattern! Either way....I'm "tickled §€£¥le$$", with the way the rifle appears to shoot at longer ranges. It also builds my confidence, knowing that I can shoot pretty well....while absorbing well over 50 foot/pounds of recoil! Hopefully I can maintain that form for many more years....but age is rather "unforgiving"! memtb

 

[memtb]

I don't shoot much at 100y. Only when the 200y range is not available. I do not put as much value in the target but the vel data is the same.

I have experienced a load that shot less than expected at 100y. It was my 1st custom rifle and I remember being quite disappointed. I still had some loaded and just wanted to shoot my new rifle so I took it to the 200y butt and shot the same size group as it did at 100y. This phenomena has been debated heavily in the past. I have experienced loads that have moa size improvement at longer range vs 100y. In my opinion it is not possible for a load to shoot smaller groups at longer range than short range, actual physical size. When this happened to me I wondered how many good loads I had discarded because I did not take them farther than 100yrds.

I will add to this that I personally shoot better at long range. The farther the range the more I am able to relax on my aiming. At short range I find myself trying to force the rifle to aim smaller.

Steve

I certainly "not" going to discount this as a possibility. Shooting, as with many sports/activities, can be a "very" mental exercise! memtb

 

[Greyfox]

I began running 200 yards for my zero's and the bulk of my testing for my centerfire rifles used for LR hunting and competition about ten years ago. The major reasons for the use of a 100 Yard zero, besides access to a range beyond 100 yards, are the environmental and wind effects that shooters believe will occur at 200 yards....distorting the ability to rely on accurate ballistic outputs at the longer ranges. In my experience, the difference due effect of wind between 100 and 200 yards will be nil, particularly with .<.5MOA precision rifles. The wind effects will still be seen at 100 yards with the need to be corrected for anyway. In either case it's best to zero with no wind. I have not experienced material differences in POI at 200 yards due to atmospherics(300'-6000' Alt, 10F-80F) with any cartridge that I would use for LR work. Given this, IMO, the major benefit of using a 200 yard zero(and testing) is the "reduced error factor" that may be due to parallax with the higher magnification scopes, load, rifle, rest, shooter etc. A 100 yard error will be magnified 10X at 1000 Yards. At 200 yards, the error factor at 1000 yards is only 5x. At 300 yards, the effect of atmospherics and the ability to determine wind can distort the baseline, perhaps unless the conditions are expected to be fairly constant A 200 yard zero does not prohibit a doing a quick 100 yard zero test in the field if required(compensating for the 200 yard elevation adjustment). In my experience, once my 200 zero, with a properly set up rifle/scope/load is established, I have experienced more consistent zero's and ballistic output precision at long range through a hunting or competition season(or longer) given my load and rifle set-up is unchanged. Additionally, my LR rifle set-ups and shooting techniques seem to have improved since adopting a 200 yard baseline.
My 6.5x47 shot prone at 200 yards.

 

[memtb]

Greyfox, That's a pretty respectable group! Looks similar to my targets....after "one" shot! memtb

 

[WildRose]

I think that I "may" be experiencing a similar situation ("go to sleep") with my rifle. When I was developing the load, I wanted to use a specific bullet. I was very pleased with the velocities....but not so much with the groups. But, as this was a "hunting rifle", and "not" a dedicated long range rifle....I decided that I could live with it.
My 100 yard, 3 - shot groups averaged around .75 to 1.25"... acceptable, but barely! As we typically hunt where longer shots are the norm, we zero at 300 yards. A few days ago, when doing a zero check for the upcoming season....my 300 yard shots where almost identical to my 100 yard shots. Granted...my shots at 300 were only 2 - shots adjust the scope and shoot again. I got a group (2 shots) 7/8" ccenter to Center, adjusted the scope and shot another 2, going 1.25" center to center. With my limited knowledge, my logic suggests that the groups should triple (3x) size at 3 times the distance....especially when only using a 10x scope. Perhaps, I'm seeing some of this phenomenon!
I saw this happen many years ago, with a friend. His preferred bullet shot terribly at 100 yards, only grouping around 2". But, when stretched out to 300 yards... his groups went to 1.0 to 1.5"! The bullets " going to sleep"....was our only explanation! memtb

That is correct at least according to the math. Errors are measured as the distance around the arc which increases with range.

1MOA at 100yds, should still be 1MOA at 1000yds assuming everything is right and the bullet isn't destabilizing early. Whenever they pass the transonic stage slowing down you're going to induce additional errors especially with most VLD's which by design need to run supersonic to remain stable.

 

[26Reload]

I recently sighted all rifle to 200 yards...and then went back to test them at 50 yards...all shot as they should have with moa numbers...
Stretching things out at distance definitely gives a person more confidence...as stated above increasing distances with an arrow(not and "erra") is great practice and makes those 25 yard shots a breeze...bullets..arrows...doesn't matter..get out and shoot....

 

[WildRose]

Carlos Hathcock zeroed at 550m.

Because of the scope he was using and the ranges he was usually working at.

 

[WildRose]

Personally I'll do initial load workups at 100 just to save time, then finalize and sight in a 200.

When I'm done I just dial everything up for 350 because most of my shots run around 300-400. If it's going to be farther than that I'll dial accordingly.

 

[memtb]

Personally I'll do initial load workups at 100 just to save time, then finalize and sight in a 200.

When I'm done I just dial everything up for 350 because most of my shots run around 300-400. If it's going to be farther than that I'll dial accordingly.

We do similar.....zero at 300! For big game, hold on hair from muzzle to 400....beyond that, range and dial! memtb

 

[WildRose]

We do similar.....zero at 300! For big game, hold on hair from muzzle to 400....beyond that, range and dial! memtb

Been working for me just fine for a few decades now. I don't miss much unless I get stupid.